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Old 11-10-2014, 08:56 AM
 
Location: East TX
2,085 posts, read 1,818,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
having spent 30 years in the coatings industry, I've baffled at how folk think that a concrete slab on grade does not absorb and hold or transmit moisture comparable to that of the dirt it rests on. A calcium chloride test or a patch test is an essential part of assessing a concrete slab for it's moisture content before applying any coatings, especially ones that are moisture blocking such as epoxies.

the difference between a concrete slab and a wood joist in direct contact with the substrate soil moisture is that the concrete doesn't rot. But it still has the moisture and if that's a problem with a dirt floor area in your climate zone, it's identical with the concrete.

Absent an effective moisture vapor barrier installed under the concrete slab, there will be moisture in the concrete placed on grade.

Similarly, you can place a moisture vapor barrier on a prepared soil base before placing wood on top of that to minimize the moisture absorption/exposure to the wood joists.
Here is your best advice so far. A moisture barrier under the wood joists will accomplish what you want as long as the wood used is treated. With a layer of gravel under the vapor barrier to drain away any standing water (rain runoff) then your vapor barrier and treated wood. In your climate the wood will actually last longer than concrete and without a permanent foundation it will also likely still be treated by the local assessor as a temporary outbuilding and be far less additional on your tax assessment.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:16 AM
 
Location: U.S.A.
3,306 posts, read 9,006,224 times
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As others have mentioned the moisture will be the biggest issue. I use this 6 mil plastic sheeting with excellent results, in a dirt floor barn:

Shop Blue Hawk 20-ft x 100-ft x 6-mil Black Construction Film at Lowes.com

I use this as the only barrier on top of the dirt and it is durable enough with withstand the maneuvering of my 7000# pickup. I laid down almost 1000 sq. ft. in about 2 hours. If you are intent on putting a structure on the floor like a platform or slab then you may want to look into even thicker sheeting or some other application-specific moisture barrier before construction.
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Old 11-10-2014, 09:36 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,775 posts, read 37,441,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rynldsbr View Post
Here is your best advice so far. A moisture barrier under the wood joists will accomplish what you want as long as the wood used is treated. With a layer of gravel under the vapor barrier to drain away any standing water (rain runoff) then your vapor barrier and treated wood. In your climate the wood will actually last longer than concrete and without a permanent foundation it will also likely still be treated by the local assessor as a temporary outbuilding and be far less additional on your tax assessment.
Do this, ^^^and pay a few bucks extra for PT 3/4 or 1" plywood.
Certainly have good drainage and no wood touching dirt. (or where varmints will burrow dirt onto wood).

I keep a 3500# Passat in a similar shed in TX. (it is an elevated shed, so I have to use ramps).

I am a bit concerned with you daily dragging snow / slush / salt that is stuck on the bottom of your car into this shed.


A pole building is permanent and will require easements / permitting and engineering. (per your local codes).

I am not keen on pole building (tho have built many and will in future)

For a long term permanent shop I prefer freespan metal frame on slab (or poured footing piers).

Remember that anything metal will sweat / condensate and you need a vapor barrier on roof and walls
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Old 11-10-2014, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,164 posts, read 16,510,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsec View Post
...Problem is, I'm not sure how long an above-ground slab will last here with the constant freezing/thawing cycles we get in the beginning and end of winter. I'm afraid it will start cracking soon. For example people don't have concrete driveways in New England because of the weather conditions.
I'm not an expert, but I wonder if it's the concrete freezing and thawing that causes it to crack or the soil expanding underneath it. Some soils expand and contract a lot, I assume due to the water they hold, others, like sand, not so much. When I had my hangar built (mentioned above), I had some of the "gumbo" soil removed and then, iirc, 4 feet of sand brought in and compacted before any construction work was started. When pouring the concrete I had them use 3/4" rebar run both ways. I never had a crack in the 15 years I owned the building.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsec View Post
No idea what a pole building is. Since the poles make up the foundation of the building, is the flooring optional?
If you watched the posted video you now understand. Yes, flooring is optional. It could be added later if you run out of money. When I built the hangar, in addition to pouring the 20' section down the middle, I also poured a 4' strip across both ends of the building so the overhead doors would seal out the weather (and critters).

Since I figured I'd add more concrete later, I had (thinking) 2" of crushed rock for the floor where there was no concrete, which left room for 3.5 inches of concrete when it went in.
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Old 11-10-2014, 02:46 PM
 
Location: North of Boston
2,939 posts, read 4,919,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsec View Post

The strongest flooring option is a double 5/8" plywood floor with 12" OC 2x6 joists. Is this strong enough to store a car (let's say an Audi Q5 which is 15 feet long and 4400 lbs) plus some garden equipment such as a tractor, lawn mower, snow blower, and tiller?

Parsec, I generally like your posts; however, that's not going to work.

What is your max budget? I would shop around, I imagine you can get a basic 24' X 24' garage built for more like $35K all in.
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Old 11-10-2014, 03:32 PM
 
16,484 posts, read 17,501,756 times
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I would pour a curb to set the shed on. It will never rot or have issues.Then level out the dirt inside, compact it throw some aggregate gravel compact that then sand. Level it and then do a brick paver foor in the garageYou can get that stuff cheap if you get a clearance load. You can simply curb level and do some crushed rock for the beginning.bsave the money for the sand aggregate and brick. The money you will doend on the beams and floor sheets of plywood will cost a lot also. Pkywood isn't cheap and won't kast anywhere near as long.
With pkywood I guarantee you will hate it and eventually be replacing it
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Old 11-10-2014, 07:24 PM
 
Location: 4222'55.2"N 7124'46.8"W
4,837 posts, read 9,230,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gf2020 View Post
Parsec, I generally like your posts; however, that's not going to work.

What is your max budget? I would shop around, I imagine you can get a basic 24' X 24' garage built for more like $35K all in.
Hey gf2020, what's up. Don't you have 3 cars? Where do you store yours? Yeah, I didn't think the plywood flooring was going to work otherwise more people would be putting up a big shed for half the price of a real garage. I just wanted to know if others have done it with good results, and it seems like the consensus is no. I don't really have a set budget, but I'm going to scrap this idea if it turns out to be too much money. I have the money, but I make a lot of financial decisions based on my gut. Since I'm a cheapass that usually means the money keeps getting invested instead of spent, lol.

I already have a 2-car attached garage. This shed/garage sit adjacent the attached garage at a 90 degree angle and share the turn-around driveway space. I'd prefer to have only 1 overhead garage door on the detached shed/garage with a smaller access door for the tractor. Personally I think having 4 garage doors in close proximity would look funny on any house under 10,000 square feet. There are a few 3-car garages in my area, so that's the most I want on my relatively modest 3,000 sf home. Ever since my wife gave me the ok to buy a 3rd car I've been disappointed to find out it's going to cost me more to store this car than it will cost to buy the car. I may end up garaging it and park my daily driver outside in the winter. Or just wait until spring to worry about all of this.

I did call the shed company and they said I would get a $1 credit per square foot if I delete the floor. They recommended calling a mason to pour a slab, then they'll build the shed on top of that. I'm pretty sure that's what I'm going to do if I go this route. I just need to get some quotes on that now.
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Old 11-11-2014, 12:52 AM
 
13,460 posts, read 14,445,292 times
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I had a steel sided, pole building (garage) built in '03 and IIRC, the ground was leveled then packed with a large roller, maybe 4 inches (can't remember exactly) of 3/4 stone, a thick plastic vapor barrier, steel mesh then 4 inches of poured concrete.
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Old 11-12-2014, 04:56 PM
 
Location: North of Boston
2,939 posts, read 4,919,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parsec View Post
Hey gf2020, what's up. Don't you have 3 cars? Where do you store yours?

Yes, I have 3 vehicles and a 1-car garage. The Tundra doesn't fit in the garage so I suspect it will be either my wife's Highlander or my Fusion in the garage this winter. I envy your space to do a project like this, we have a small lot.
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