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Old 12-01-2014, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,328 posts, read 3,589,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuszu View Post
I know how to professionally detail cars and have never used a rotary buffer - hand waxing is the way to go if you don't want to damage the paint. There's a ton of great Youtube videos on how to properly detail an automobile and none of the people I've seen or known who do high end vehicles for a living use machines.

Oh really? Go look up AMMONYC. That guy typically uses the machine and can create a mirror finish on anything using machines. It has nothing to do with the machine. It is the process.

You can take a rotary and produce a flawless finish if you know what you are doing. Granted, this isn't for everyone but it is completely possible and is used frequently by high end detail shops.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:18 AM
 
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Why wax/polish by hand when any DA (dual action) polisher will get the job done quicker, easier, and better. And since it's dual action the risk of "burning" the paint is very slim.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:14 AM
 
5,458 posts, read 6,121,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IShootNikon View Post
Why wax/polish by hand when any DA (dual action) polisher will get the job done quicker, easier, and better. And since it's dual action the risk of "burning" the paint is very slim.

Once the paint/finish is touched with a rotary buffer it will have swirl marks (holograms). You will never get them out. In essence, you have millions of little scratches in the paint/finish created by the buffer.

A true professional will only hand rub a finish with the most delicate of cloths. Even if it is your every day driver and you don't much care about the finish, using a power buffer without a GREAT deal of experience is a recipe for disaster.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Huntsville
5,328 posts, read 3,589,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Bear View Post
Once the paint/finish is touched with a rotary buffer it will have swirl marks (holograms). You will never get them out. In essence, you have millions of little scratches in the paint/finish created by the buffer.

A true professional will only hand rub a finish with the most delicate of cloths. Even if it is your every day driver and you don't much care about the finish, using a power buffer without a GREAT deal of experience is a recipe for disaster.

I still challenge this. Yes, MANY will do this by hand, but not all. Again, go look up the AMMONYC guy on Youtube. He details high end cars like the Ford GT, Porsche 911, Lamborghini, Ferrari, etc.. He even works on restoring classic car paint. And more times than not he is using machines.
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Old 12-01-2014, 12:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Bear View Post
Once the paint/finish is touched with a rotary buffer it will have swirl marks (holograms). You will never get them out. In essence, you have millions of little scratches in the paint/finish created by the buffer.

A true professional will only hand rub a finish with the most delicate of cloths. Even if it is your every day driver and you don't much care about the finish, using a power buffer without a GREAT deal of experience is a recipe for disaster.
I'm talking about a Dual Action Polisher (PC7424, Flex, etc). Not a rotary.

I agree a rotary takes a bit more skill and is more dangerous to use. A dual action polisher is a lot safer and risk of burning through the paint is very minimal. It oscillates and rotates so less chance of overheating.

And using a finishing polish such as Menzerna SF4000 or SF4500 with a black finishing pad (or even finer) you will wipe out any and all holograms or micro marring that you created by using more aggressive polishes.

Any expert or professional is NOT doing this by hand. Just go check out autopia or autogeek and read their forums. A wealth of information.

Last edited by IShootNikon; 12-01-2014 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nlambert View Post
Oh really? Go look up AMMONYC. That guy typically uses the machine and can create a mirror finish on anything using machines. It has nothing to do with the machine. It is the process.

You can take a rotary and produce a flawless finish if you know what you are doing. Granted, this isn't for everyone but it is completely possible and is used frequently by high end detail shops.
ok I get that.... but, I can easily create a mirror finish on my vehicles without a machine (that's what a good hand cleaning/claying followed by waxing achieves).... so not being sarcastic at all, just being inquisitive, I pose the question.. why would I want to use a machine that costs money and might potentially damage my vehicle's clear coat? Is it going to make the process faster for the one or two cars most of us own? Is the mirror finish going to be "more mirrored"? If not, what's the freakin point? Is it just to have another piece of equipment to worry about/buy pads for?
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:06 PM
 
2,775 posts, read 2,577,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IShootNikon View Post
...Any expert or professional is NOT doing this by hand. Just go check out autopia or autogeek and read their forums. A wealth of information.
I'm calling baloney on this statement. Sorry, but my research revealed otherwise and in fact there's a wealth of Youtube videos by guys who own detailing businesses that teach how they do their thing. I didn't view a single video saying to use a machine and I did come across over 20 that otherwise give awesome tips and techniques for washing, claying, waxing and detailing. Considering how much emphasis is placed upon ensuring you don't rub too hard when cleaning and more importantly how perfectly clean the pads and clay and towels you use must be, I cannot see how it is remotely safe to put a machine in most people's hands... it's asking for trouble. Swirl marks and scratches suck... I do everything I can to avoid them. I have had multiple black vehicles, expensive ones.... I know how to wash and shine a vehicle. It's a joke to me that people are recommending using machines.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:07 PM
 
7,282 posts, read 8,380,090 times
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It really doesn't matter - hand or machine. There is only so much you can do to modern car finishes because of the materials used in the paint and the original quality of the sheen or finish.

No matter what you do, you can't ever increase the shine or mirror of the paint under the clear coat unless you remove the clear coat. All you can do is smooth and polish the clear coat and try to make it as transparent as possible. Even with that, there are limits and it isn't going to matter if you use the machine or do it by hand, everything depends on the skill of the person doing the work.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:13 PM
 
4,429 posts, read 3,103,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuszu View Post
ok I get that.... but, I can easily create a mirror finish on my vehicles without a machine (that's what a good hand cleaning/claying followed by waxing achieves).... so not being sarcastic at all, just being inquisitive, I pose the question.. why would I want to use a machine that costs money and might potentially damage my vehicle's clear coat? Is it going to make the process faster for the one or two cars most of us own? Is the mirror finish going to be "more mirrored"? If not, what's the freakin point? Is it just to have another piece of equipment to worry about/buy pads for?
You must have hands/elbows of stone. That's a lot of elbow grease.

Even with a dual action polisher it takes me at least one full day if not two to finish a regular sized car. This includes wash, decontamination, clay, heavy compounding (if needed), polish, finishing polish, IPA wipe down, and finally wax/sealing or my favorite laying on a coating. By hand would take me a week as I would only be working a few hours before my hand would fall off. A polisher can spin up to 6000 rpm, no way my hand can compete.

If you can do this by hand more power to you.
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Old 12-01-2014, 08:19 PM
 
4,429 posts, read 3,103,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbuszu View Post
I'm calling baloney on this statement. Sorry, but my research revealed otherwise and in fact there's a wealth of Youtube videos by guys who own detailing businesses that teach how they do their thing. I didn't view a single video saying to use a machine and I did come across over 20 that otherwise give awesome tips and techniques for washing, claying, waxing and detailing. Considering how much emphasis is placed upon ensuring you don't rub too hard when cleaning and more importantly how perfectly clean the pads and clay and towels you use must be, I cannot see how it is remotely safe to put a machine in most people's hands... it's asking for trouble. Swirl marks and scratches suck... I do everything I can to avoid them. I have had multiple black vehicles, expensive ones.... I know how to wash and shine a vehicle. It's a joke to me that people are recommending using machines.
What you are doing is "filling" and covering up the swirls. There are products that will fill and cover up swirls.

You are not removing any swirls by hand. You have to remove some clear coat to smooth it out. Basically sanding it down. The only way to do this is with a machine. 6000 rpm vs hand. I'll take the machine every day.

I'm not here to argue. Clearly it works for you. But call up any legitimate detailing business and ask how they correct and polish paint on cars. I guarantee you NONE of them do it by hand.

I'm not talking about washing. I'm talking about paint correction

In other words, it is unreasonable (some would say impossible and foolish) to fully paint correct a whole car by hand.

Last edited by IShootNikon; 12-01-2014 at 08:31 PM..
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