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Then you've never driven a truly manual transmission with paddle shifters and a clutch.
In fact, I think most of you are talking about the experience of driving a semi-automatic transmission, which is a completely different experience from driving a "true" manual flappy paddle transmission. The big difference is that the true manual transmission still has a clutch; you just shift with paddles instead of a stick (and you don't have to press a clutch pedal of course). Also, as with other "stick" manual transmissions, there's no "park."
I have flappy paddles on my Jaguar and its pretty much a joke so I never bother to use them. In fact, every automatic I've driven that has flappy paddles has been a joke. Basically, its because it is an automatic transmission at heart. That is completely different from my Maserati for example, which has a Ferrari F1 transmission. While it has an auto mode that it can be placed in, it is still a manual transmission with a (very expensive) clutch. In fact, I'm getting ready to spend over $4k to replace it later this month.
I've driven sticks off-and-on for over 30 years, and while I suppose shifting via a stick and depressing a clutch pedal is a more visceral experience, the driving experience itself is as good if not better with the F1 paddles because the car responds better and shifts faster than you could ever accomplish with the stick. I would imagine that's why Ferrari originally developed this shifting system for its Formula 1 race cars to begin with.
Wrong. I've driven enough automated manual transmissions to know I won't waste my money on one. It's the same thing as an automatic to me. I'm that detached from the car. I would still rather take public transit.
As I've already written earlier on this thread, Ferrari's F1 transmission is a true manual transmission with a clutch. It just happens to shift gears using paddles instead of a stick.
You're making the same mistake that most everyone else on this thread has been making: You're equating a manual transmission that uses paddles with cars that have an automatic transmission, but also allow quasi-manual shifting via paddles.
The Ferrari transmission does not have a clutch pedal. Car magazines and auto enthusiasts do not consider it a manual. Some call it an automated manual. It will shift gears for you if you it to.
I have used the Lexus S mode mainly as a braking device. I agree, it is not like a regular manual. At least mine is on the gear shift and not those paddle things on the steering wheel.
To me this is just the evolution of the motor vehicle. I wonder how many people said the same thing when power steering was introduced? What about power brakes along with disc brakes instead of 4 drums?
Don't get me wrong, driving with a manual is fun, but if they completely went away, I wouldn't be heart broken.
I have never driven a "flappy paddle" shift car, and don't care to try one. Some things, like moose **** pie, I am confident I won't like and don't need to try.
Beyond the lack of engagement of the driver, I'm fairly certain these cars will wear out a clutch a lot faster than I do, since they are tuned to a smooth takeoff, rather than to conserve the clutch with a bit rougher but quicker engagement.
When taking off on level pavement in the Scirocco, I consider it a perfect takeoff if the alternator light just "winks" at me as I let the clutch out. I have over 200K on that clutch and it's not even 30% used up. Full disclosure though - I drive in a rural environment with probably 90% of the time being spent in 5th gear cruising.
The clutch packs on DCTs are designed to last the life of the car; they achieve this in part by using multi-plate clutch packs and in part by their simultaneous engagement/disengagement of the two clutches between shifts. That's how they're able to affect shifts so smoothly and rapidly at the same time. If you've worn out a clutch pack on a DCT, chances are you're either using launch control on a daily basis or you're running considerably more torque through the unit than it's rated for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadManofBethesda
Keep in mind that you're wrong.
As I've already written earlier on this thread, Ferrari's F1 transmission is a true manual transmission with a clutch. It just happens to shift gears using paddles instead of a stick.
You're making the same mistake that most everyone else on this thread has been making: You're equating a manual transmission that uses paddles with cars that have an automatic transmission, but also allow quasi-manual shifting via paddles.
Q: What do you call a transmission that selects its own gears?
A: An automatic transmission.
I don't care if it has a clutch and flywheel or a torque converter; I don't care if it has an option to let the driver select the shift points. If you can put it in "D" and go, it's an automatic. And that applies to every new Ferrari currently on the market.
To me this is just the evolution of the motor vehicle. I wonder how many people said the same thing when power steering was introduced? What about power brakes along with disc brakes instead of 4 drums?
I have to disagree. Upgrade brakes, fuel injection, and various technological advances don't really change HOW you drive. They just make it safer, faster, more efficient, etc.
Driving a car with a clutch pedal and manual transmission is a lot more involved than an automatic, manumatic, or automated manual. It's a skill that's developed, and enjoyed, by many people who want a more engaged experience while driving.
So people lamenting the lack of manuals aren't in the boat as those who complain about disc brakes or other general vehicle improvements.
To answer the original question, flappy paddles (whether an auto or automated manual) nowhere near replicate the feel of driving a true manual transmission.
I actually prefer the sport shift I have in my automatic instead of paddle shifters. . .
Fortunately those in my car are fixed to the steering column and rather large so they're always within easy reach. Or if you prefer. For some reason I often find myself using the paddle to upshift and the shift lever to downshift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Checkered24
Short answer: No.
That said, I do find the dual clutch unit in Volkswagens, (Such as the GTI) to be rather entertaining to shift yourself. It is direct and immediate in it's shifts.
However, if they are paddles for a slushbox, you can keep them.
I agree, if the paddles on the sushbox are just a max gear limiter. But for performance cars with slushboxes that are programmed for the task and hold gears like a properly-programmed DCT, I think you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference.
I don't remember anyone complaining about technological advances like power steering, brakes, fuel injection, etc.
Automatic transmissions change the driving experience....and not in ways that many of us like.
I'm glad it's available ... and I'm fine that 90% of the public want it.
I don't...and those that don't should be able to have a voice too.
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