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Old 03-01-2019, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,887,466 times
Reputation: 14180

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Hello, all...
Just an update.
I now have another Jeep, a 2005 Wrangler Unlimited. Outside mirrors, both sides.
I have a PT Cruiser Turbo Convertible. Outside mirrors, both sides.
1999 Dodge 2500. Towing mirrors, both sides.
Just for grins, we bought a 1966 Chevelle 4 door sedan. It came from the factory with a left outside mirror.
Our RV has both outside mirrors, and a rear view camera.
Both street legal Kawasaki ATVs have 2 mirrors.
Over the years, I owned several AMC Eagle vehicles, 1981-1984. All of them had outside mirrors, both sides.


So, my point was, and is, that the "left mirror" restriction is a bureaucratic boondoggle that the automotive industry has made useless by installing such mirrors on all vehicles at the factory.
But then, State Laws and Regulations are never reviewed and updated, no matter how ridiculous they are in the modern world!
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Old 03-01-2019, 09:11 AM
 
13,395 posts, read 13,396,708 times
Reputation: 35709
OP, are you complaining about being required to see both driver and passenger side mirrors?
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Old 03-01-2019, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,887,466 times
Reputation: 14180
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
OP, are you complaining about being required to see both driver and passenger side mirrors?

It appears somebody is "reading between the lines" again.
That is not a good idea. There is usually nothing between the lines but empty space.
Nowhere have I stated what is asked above. Nowhere.
But, if that is what you choose to believe, go right ahead. Far be it from me that attempt to change your mind. IMO, that would be an exercise in futility.
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Cebu, Philippines
5,869 posts, read 4,159,455 times
Reputation: 10940
When cars are used in movie scenes, all mirrors are yanked, including interior. Nobody wants to worry about boom mikes and camera dollies showing in in a mirror.
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:50 PM
 
3,782 posts, read 4,202,653 times
Reputation: 7892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
Strange.
I have been to Moab with a group of Jeep owners, and not one of us took the outside mirrors off before going to Elephant Hill or Long Canyon or Top Of The World, or any of the other trails. Removing power adjustable, heated mirrors is not something to be done in a minute or two! Removing cable operated mirror takes hours!
I very rarely see a vehicle around here with a broken mirror. Apparently, though, it is quite common in Idaho. I can honestly say it is not common along the I-90 corridor in Northern Idaho, though.
Thank you for the tutorial on Idaho law concerning mirrors. However, that does not change the fact that nearly every vehicle in the world built during the last few years has had outside mirrors installed on BOTH sides.
Why, then, should there be a special restriction requiring someone to install a drivers side mirror, when nearly every vehicle already has one?
Old thread but I lived in Moab for 7 years and know a lot of people who removed outside mirrors and on jeeps the complete door with the mirror. But these were not on the beginner/tourist trails like top of the world, long canyon or elephant hill.
Try Moab rim, steelbender, metal masher, Pritchett and do some serious off roading.

Your welcome for the tutorial; however I was not attempting to teach you any law; since that is most likely impossible. I was just replying with some reasons why a restriction could be added. But you answered your own question by saying; "when NEARLY EVERY VEHICLE has one." Nearly implies NOT ALL. Duh.

So, before telling me about the kiddie trails you ran in the Moab area in a sarcastic post, you could grow up show your age and be a bit less of a jerk. However, to be fair you appear to be a jerk to everyone.

But people like you are the reason I stay off forums like this cause I ran into too many when I was working and that never ended well for them.
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,887,466 times
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"But you answered your own question by saying; "when NEARLY EVERY VEHICLE has one." Nearly implies NOT ALL. Duh."


Thank you for proving my unstated point: If I had said "ALL vehicles have them." somebody would have jumped in saying "NOT TRUE! The 2019 Whatever Express Turbo does not have external mirrors on either side!"
So, in an attempt to defuse that, I stated "nearly all", and sure enough somebody could not resist a correction!
(sigh) Ya jus' cain't win....


By the way, the ROF guys (including me) did do Moab Rim, Metal Masher, Pritchett Canyon, and many others. We used the Wells Moab guide book to plan outings for the week we were there, usually right after Easter Jeep Week.


From the Moab trails book by Charles A. Wells: "Elephant Hill. Difficulty: Difficult....This is not a trail for beginners; experience is necessary. High ground clearance, skid plates, rocker panel protection are recommended to avoid body damage." Page 229, 2000 edition. Tower Arch (another of our favorites), however, is considered "Moderate" by Wells. Page 45 of the 2000 edition.

Last edited by Redraven; 03-02-2019 at 01:01 PM..
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Old 03-02-2019, 04:07 PM
 
13,395 posts, read 13,396,708 times
Reputation: 35709
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
It appears somebody is "reading between the lines" again.
That is not a good idea. There is usually nothing between the lines but empty space.
Nowhere have I stated what is asked above. Nowhere.
But, if that is what you choose to believe, go right ahead. Far be it from me that attempt to change your mind. IMO, that would be an exercise in futility.
Not reading anything. I don't understand the nature of your complaint. You wrote this:

Quote:
On the front: block 12: Restr YES
On the back: Restriction(s): LEFT OUT MIRROR

Presumably, that means I MUST have an outside rear view mirror on the left side of the vehicle.
Are you opposing having the physical left mirror or something related to your vision?
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Old 03-03-2019, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,887,466 times
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But if you read a little further, you will see:
"But wait! Hasn't nearly every vehicle built in the world for who-nows-how-many-years been built with outside rear view mirrors on BOTH sides?

Just another fine example of government bureaucratic logic (now, THERE is an oxymoron! "Bureaucratic logic"!)!


So, the point I am making is: The DMV has decided that due to a vision problem, I must have a left hand outside mirror, even though nearly every car manufacturer has installed such mirrors for over 30 years. In fact, the manufacturers have installed outside mirrors on BOTH sides for about that long. In fact, everything I own has outside mirrors on both sides (except the 1966 Chevelle; it only has the factory installed left side mirror).
So, the restriction is merely some bureaucrat's ridiculous and unnecessary idea, probably promoting "safety", but accomplishing nothing.
THAT was the point!
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Old 03-04-2019, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
3,631 posts, read 7,616,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
Yep, old age is having its way with me.
I didn't do well on the vision test. Not that I failed the test, just didn't do well.
So, now, my license is restricted.
On the front: block 12: Restr YES
On the back: Restriction(s): LEFT OUT MIRROR

Presumably, that means I MUST have an outside rear view mirror on the left side of the vehicle.

But wait! Hasn't nearly every vehicle built in the world for who-nows-how-many-years been built with outside rear view mirrors on BOTH sides?

Just another fine example of government bureaucratic logic (now, THERE is an oxymoron! "Bureaucratic logic"!)!
I took the vision test wearing only one contact once (not knowing it was set up to test vision in EACH eye rather than combined vision) they slapped me with the same restriction. This actually DID affect me as I was unable just pop the doors off my Wrangler and drive legally. Newer Wranglers may be set up differently but on mine the mirrors are on the doors.

Retested with both contacts and passed.

If all your cars have both outside mirrors anyway, I question why you are complaining about it...it's not as if they are fining you or significantly restricting what you are allowed to drive.
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Old 03-04-2019, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
9,885 posts, read 10,887,466 times
Reputation: 14180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoHoVe View Post
I took the vision test wearing only one contact once (not knowing it was set up to test vision in EACH eye rather than combined vision) they slapped me with the same restriction. This actually DID affect me as I was unable just pop the doors off my Wrangler and drive legally. Newer Wranglers may be set up differently but on mine the mirrors are on the doors.

Retested with both contacts and passed.

If all your cars have both outside mirrors anyway, I question why you are complaining about it...it's not as if they are fining you or significantly restricting what you are allowed to drive.

Well, basically, I am NOT "complaining about it". I am merely stating that in my opinion, the requirement for the restriction is asinine, because "nearly all" (no, not ALL) vehicles built in the last 30+ years have had outside mirrors installed at the factory assembly line. Why have a requirement that somebody has to install something that is already installed on nearly all vehicles? That is like saying that all vehicles must have hydraulic brakes or air brakes on all wheels, even though mechanical brakes went away about 1936! (yes, the law is still on the books!)
In reality, the restriction accomplishes nothing and does not add anything to safety.
THAT is what I find ridiculous.
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