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It's not even really about Tesla in the end. The ICE, although is still making improvements and isn't going away in my lifetime, has really reached the end of its life. Electric cars are here, and no matter who makes them, I'm excited for the future.
Anyone who likes the freedom of mobility that personal transportation provides should be. Eventually we're going to run out of cheap fossil fuels to burn. It's just going to happen. As I've pointed out in other threads, electric cars don't have a huge cost advantage. Eg, Nissan Leaf EPA 30 kWh/100 miles at 11 cents per kWh average electricity price, $3.30. AAA fuel gauge national average gasoline is $2.04/gallon. Prius Eco gets 56, $3.64. Thing is electric scales differently. Model S has nutty levels of performance surpassing an E63 or M5 or CTS-V which get around 18 mpg, or less than a third of what the Prius Eco does. Tesla Model S P90D? 36 kWh/100 miles. Nearly as efficient as the Leaf and similar "fuel" costs to a Prius Eco. Model 3 won't be a mini P90D but it's also, most likely, not going to be as lousy to drive as the Prius is. Range problems aren't going to go away but 200+ mile, maybe 150 miles in the real world driving at highway speeds with heater/AC use, especially for two-vehicle households has a lot of potential already. Am I going to rush out and buy one? Hmm, maybe. I'd still want a gasoline vehicle which is an impediment. It'll work better for two-vehicle households where you have the second one anyway for the family vehicle for taking extended trips, or the Volt implementation.
There really is a lot of hype but some of it is well deserved. It's really the first product of its kind selling at an affordable price (roughly the median price of new cars sold in the US). It looks like an expensive car as opposed to the upcoming Chevy Bolt which looks down market.
I agree that the exterior certainly makes the car look more expensive than it actually is, but the interior is a different story. I just think it's just slightly overhyped...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffer E38
Would you like it better if it were another junker sitting in a field? Or do you hate them because you can't fiddle with their carburetor while they rust in your back yard?
EVs are great transportation devices and Tesla has shown that they can be fun to drive, too. The fact that Tesla is a new American company breaking into a mature market and doing well at stirring up the status quo is itself a great reason to be a fan of them. What was the last new car company to really make an impact in the automotive market? For example, what happened to Tucker?
...I don't like the "fangirling" because you all seem to forget that there are still people out there who enjoy their human controlled and ICE powered vehicles. I don't want to be looked down upon in the future because I drive something old/ICE powered/human controlled. I see a car sitting in a field is a perfect opportunity for memories to be created, a father/son restoration for example. I've become more open to EVs in recent months, but there is a point when enough is enough. I do not hate Teslas at all.
I'll agree that a new company that's actually getting somewhere is something. The last new car company to make an impact in the automarket was Saturn, I'd say.
I wouldn't say they squandered anything given that the Model S and X are paying for the Model 3's development. Without the first two cars higher margins we probably would have never seen the Model 3 from Tesla.
Elon Musk has literally made 11 figures because of government subsidies. If it weren't for the $5 billion his companies have received from the taxpayers, none of his companies would exist today.
Hasn't Tesla been in the red for 40+ straight quarters? After a decade or so, shouldn't a company stand on their own?
Anyone who likes the freedom of mobility that personal transportation provides should be. Eventually we're going to run out of cheap fossil fuels to burn. It's just going to happen. As I've pointed out in other threads, electric cars don't have a huge cost advantage. Eg, Nissan Leaf EPA 30 kWh/100 miles at 11 cents per kWh average electricity price, $3.30. AAA fuel gauge national average gasoline is $2.04/gallon. Prius Eco gets 56, $3.64. Thing is electric scales differently. Model S has nutty levels of performance surpassing an E63 or M5 or CTS-V which get around 18 mpg, or less than a third of what the Prius Eco does. Tesla Model S P90D? 36 kWh/100 miles. Nearly as efficient as the Leaf and similar "fuel" costs to a Prius Eco. Model 3 won't be a mini P90D but it's also, most likely, not going to be as lousy to drive as the Prius is. Range problems aren't going to go away but 200+ mile, maybe 150 miles in the real world driving at highway speeds with heater/AC use, especially for two-vehicle households has a lot of potential already. Am I going to rush out and buy one? Hmm, maybe. I'd still want a gasoline vehicle which is an impediment. It'll work better for two-vehicle households where you have the second one anyway for the family vehicle for taking extended trips, or the Volt implementation.
I agree.
I also think that electric cars will get better over time, possibly surpassing gas engines and infrastructure in other areas as well.
200 miles is just about perfect for me. My commute is only 35 miles a day (total). The Leaf or other cars under 100 mile range, are a bit worrisome. Over time if the battery degrades; if I have to make a couple of stops after work, run the AC, and/or drive through a heat wave here in CA...it worries me.
With 200 miles I don't really have to worry as much. And when Tesla expands their Supercharger network, it may be a decent "local" road trip car. I can run the AC or other things as much as I want, maybe even forget to charge one night, and still be OK.
My wife and I will still have a Hybrid or gas vehicle for longer road trips, as we like to go on them often. But the sooner we can ditch ICE for our commuters, the better.
(I'll still have an S2000, Miata, or Porsche in the garage, especially when I hit my mid-life crisis though. )
I look at EVs like everybody was looking at hybrids a decade ago. At one point it was believed a hybrid version of everything would exist at one point. So far it's been a fail. Prius sells well but is still only .5 per cent of all car sales. Hybrid trucks and large sedans never panned out.
Batteries just aren't scalable. Cost may come down but energy density is terrible. Even the Model S has pretty poor track performance outside a couple drag strip passes.
I look at EVs like everybody was looking at hybrids a decade ago. At one point it was believed a hybrid version of everything would exist at one point. So far it's been a fail. Prius sells well but is still only .5 per cent of all car sales. Hybrid trucks and large sedans never panned out.
Batteries just aren't scalable. Cost may come down but energy density is terrible. Even the Model S has pretty poor track performance outside a couple drag strip passes.
Hybrids were never THE answer.
Also I don't or at least ever heard that there would be a hybrid version of everything.
I still wouldn't call hybrids a fail in the least. They were/are to serve a purpose, just like the new EVs are today; to gain broader awareness that ICEs aren't forever. And to bridge the gap to eventual EV.
Remember this is all happening in the first 20 years. The ICE took a couple of hundred years to even be thought of and had 100 years to be "perfected" in autos.
This technology will get cheaper, evolve and surpass ICE in a fraction of the time.
Elon Musk has literally made 11 figures because of government subsidies. If it weren't for the $5 billion his companies have received from the taxpayers, none of his companies would exist today.
Hasn't Tesla been in the red for 40+ straight quarters? After a decade or so, shouldn't a company stand on their own?
I wouldn't expect them to be out of the red until they are well into Model 3 deliveries (or beyond) because they reinvest heavily into R&D and product development. Negatives look awful on paper but its important to consider where the money is going (as opposed to an established long term business being constantly in the red with nothing ground breaking or new to chew up resources). It's an interesting way to run a business for sure but not awful if you can keep investors reasonably happy/confident. I believe Amazon is in a similar situation due to all of the constant expansion.
Also I don't or at least ever heard that there would be a hybrid version of everything.
I still wouldn't call hybrids a fail in the least. They were/are to serve a purpose, just like the new EVs are today; to gain broader awareness that ICEs aren't forever. And to bridge the gap to eventual EV.
Remember this is all happening in the first 20 years. The ICE took a couple of hundred years to even be thought of and had 100 years to be "perfected" in autos.
This technology will get cheaper, evolve and surpass ICE in a fraction of the time.
It'll get cheaper, but it's not good my to surpass ICE any time soon. Battery density is the problem. There have been few strides in making it better in the past 100 years. Battery limitations are the reason hybrids never took off. Asking a battery to pull a boat 100 miles and back is asking a lot. 40 minute charge times just for a sedan is pathetic. Try charging a semi truck. Fuel cells are far more scalable. EV is just a technology appropriate for a hand full of cars, nothing more. !ts not going replace ICE anytime soon.
I look at EVs like everybody was looking at hybrids a decade ago. At one point it was believed a hybrid version of everything would exist at one point. So far it's been a fail. Prius sells well but is still only .5 per cent of all car sales. Hybrid trucks and large sedans never panned out.
Batteries just aren't scalable. Cost may come down but energy density is terrible. Even the Model S has pretty poor track performance outside a couple drag strip passes.
Energy density isn't an issue at this point and its only going to get better. The Model S gets close to 300 miles and my 2010 Hyundai Genesis Sedan V8 gets about 330 miles per tank if I'm light on the throttle. The Model S was never built as a track car as that isn't the intended purpose although you're bound to see more legitimate electric sports cars as electrics become more mainstream. I personally haven't bothered with hybrids as the math never panned out but they are a bridging technology and the benefits of electrics are far greater.
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