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Anybody know how the old 2-stroke Detroits hold up with ULSD? I have a pair of 12V71TIs in my old boat and so far have been able to avoid ULSD by fueling at piers that cater to large commercial vessels. But that may be not be possible on a long cruise that we have planned this summer.
With a 1200 gallon fuel capacity, any additive will be an expensive proposition, but I sure don't want to damage my big Jimmies!
Anybody know how the old 2-stroke Detroits hold up with ULSD? I have a pair of 12V71TIs in my old boat and so far have been able to avoid ULSD by fueling at piers that cater to large commercial vessels. But that may be not be possible on a long cruise that we have planned this summer.
With a 1200 gallon fuel capacity, any additive will be an expensive proposition, but I sure don't want to damage my big Jimmies!
Given that the "old 2-stroke" detroits were designed and developed long prior to the advent of ULSD, I'd err on the side of caution by using diesel fuel system conditioners. From an economy viewpoint, your boat may not need a strong fuel system cleaning but some modest improvement in the fuel lubricity.
One of my customers used to blend and sell to the West Coast fishing fleet ... years ago ... diesel fuel conditioners that were specifically formulated to enhance various series of engines; ie, Cummins, Caterpillar, Detroit, MAN, and a host of other diesel engines all had engine specific formulations. Targeted to users with multi-thousand gallon tankage for the long distance fishing grounds, the stuff was quite concentrated. IIRC, it took only a gallon of product per 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel. Sorry, I never saw an MSDS on the product even when he gave me a few cases of pint cans to try in 'benz, BMW, Peugeot, VW/Audi, and a few other automotive diesels ... so I have no idea what was in it. The proof of the pudding, however, was that he sold a lot of it to people who depended upon long term durable performance of their engines and if he hadn't delivered a beneficial product to his customers, they'd not have used it. I recall that one of the key benefits of the stuff was that it controlled algae and bacteria growth in the fuel system, so it was much appreciated on those multi-month trips.
Perhaps a minimal dose of your choice of major diesel fuel conditioner/cetane improver may be beneficial to a well-tuned (ie, run those overheads and adjust the injector travel setting with the gauge tool as uniformly as possible on those Detroit's). Those 2-strokers were very sensitive to having the injectors as closely matched for fuel delivery as possible for best economy ... clean injector nozzles with balanced spray patterns and adjusting the travel uniformly across the 12 cylinders is critical to their operation.
Don't hear of a gas engine injector or fuel pump wearing out from lack of lube do you? The diesel is the same basic operation/concept. Again, if they had to be replaced, there were other issues. I'm not denying additives help, and make them quieter, and even help the mileage a little, (I even mentioned I used 2cycle for the cackle of my Powerjoke) but ULSD didn't cause all the problems its blamed for.
You cannot compare gas injectors to diesel injectors. not even close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compression
I would second what Upstate John says regarding the 2 stroke oil (TCW-3 spec to be exact) as an excellent lubricity additive.
The standards test that Nlambert mentioned for lubricity even confirmed that it has the best lubricity, at least the last time I read anything about it, probably about 5 years back.
I guess we read different reports/tests because the ones I read said 2-stroke oil was completely ineffective. Some few of the marketed additives actually did anything to improve lubricity. What helped the most was adding biodiesel.
I guess we read different reports/tests because the ones I read said 2-stroke oil was completely ineffective. Some few of the marketed additives actually did anything to improve lubricity. What helped the most was adding biodiesel.
Here is one such study, as I mentioned, read some time ago. The methodology used on the study is addressed, and seems to be done in a rather controlled manner.
I'll concede that 2% bio is the best additive. And stand corrected. 2% bio is still pretty tough to find in my neck of the woods. However TC W3 spec 2 stroke, is more effective than some of the bigger, better known brands additives. Remember, there are two types of 2 stroke oil. The newer TC W3 spec is what adds lubricity to the fuel. And is likely the most cost effective at doing so.
The study lists about 17 different additives in order of performance. #1 being the best.
A few points.
#1 is 2% bio.
#'s 2-6 are products I've not seen marketed in my area (SW Florida)
#7 TC-W3 spec 2 stroke oil
#8 Stanadyne additive
#9Amsoil
#10 Power Service.
So plain old TC W3 spec (ashless) 2 stroke oil is still a better additive than the next three, perhaps best known, additives. TC W3 is also available in a synthetic formula, that should NOT be used for purposes of adding lubricity to ULSD.
As one continues down the list, the additives actually begin to detract from the baseline lubricity of the ULSD. Those additives actually make the raw ULSD pump fuel worse.
CN
Last edited by Compression; 06-12-2016 at 08:29 PM..
Given that the "old 2-stroke" detroits were designed and developed long prior to the advent of ULSD, I'd err on the side of caution by using diesel fuel system conditioners. From an economy viewpoint, your boat may not need a strong fuel system cleaning but some modest improvement in the fuel lubricity.
One of my customers used to blend and sell to the West Coast fishing fleet ... years ago ... diesel fuel conditioners that were specifically formulated to enhance various series of engines; ie, Cummins, Caterpillar, Detroit, MAN, and a host of other diesel engines all had engine specific formulations. Targeted to users with multi-thousand gallon tankage for the long distance fishing grounds, the stuff was quite concentrated. IIRC, it took only a gallon of product per 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel. Sorry, I never saw an MSDS on the product even when he gave me a few cases of pint cans to try in 'benz, BMW, Peugeot, VW/Audi, and a few other automotive diesels ... so I have no idea what was in it. The proof of the pudding, however, was that he sold a lot of it to people who depended upon long term durable performance of their engines and if he hadn't delivered a beneficial product to his customers, they'd not have used it. I recall that one of the key benefits of the stuff was that it controlled algae and bacteria growth in the fuel system, so it was much appreciated on those multi-month trips.
Perhaps a minimal dose of your choice of major diesel fuel conditioner/cetane improver may be beneficial to a well-tuned (ie, run those overheads and adjust the injector travel setting with the gauge tool as uniformly as possible on those Detroit's). Those 2-strokers were very sensitive to having the injectors as closely matched for fuel delivery as possible for best economy ... clean injector nozzles with balanced spray patterns and adjusting the travel uniformly across the 12 cylinders is critical to their operation.
Thanks much, Sunsprit.
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