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My realistic dream car is $40k. With TTL, I'd probably walk out of the dealer owing 43k, assuming zero down. I see a lot of people driving 40-50k vehicles who I know for a fact don't make 100k+ to be able to afford the car.
What do you car guys who have a smaller income do? I've wanted an expensive car for years, but so far I've held out and not splurged on it. The payment would be 5-600 per month, which is more than I'm putting towards my retirement. I also have a mortgage at 4%, so it would be more prudent to make double payments if I simply need to spend money. It's really hard to be a car guy when the majority of fun and sporty cars cost an arm and a leg.
Does anyone else feel like me, where used cars just aren't satisfying the itch, but you are still prudent enough to not drop 40k on a car and have that debt around your neck?
As for people who will say there are fun cars for cheap, that's probably true. The 2 cars I've always wanted are expensive.
Subaru wrx sti
BMW m3
First of all, I do agree with you that dream cars are out of reach for some of us if we are committed to the obligations and realities of being mature and conforming adults. I had a few fun things when I was young, then I had kids and it all went away and I am now that practical Mr. Dad that drives a bland 4 door to and from work every day.
Where I disagree with you is that the dream is at or near $40k and I unattainable. If your going to mourn the loss of a dream, make it bigger. If your not in the annual income or x2 then your dreaming too small. personally I think the used Ferrari Testarossa lightly edges out the 68 GTO or 442 convertible for drooling dream machine.
I also think that if you truly want to buy happiness (which, contrary to popular belief, is possible) then you need to accept the fact that a used dream car is better than NO dream car. A good used version of your dream can be/is within reach if you simply get over the whole "new" issue.
A good number of them have been stolen or destroyed, so I could see the value go up a bit for sure.
prices leveled off after a slow drop for years. There are quite a lot of e36 m3....a lot of variants too. Manual, auto, coupe, convertible, 2 dr, 4 dr, eurospec, etc....etc etc.
If memory serves, the e30 m3 production #s were 5,000.
I make 6 figures and also have a six figure net worth. I don't have any debt either and my current vehicle is 13 years old and it was paid off aeons ago (I did take a loan at that time but paid it off within 2 years). I was thinking of buying a new car now, but thinking around $25k budget. That in itself is lot to spend on a car I think but I plan on keeping it for 10+ years just like my current vehicle.
I'm thinking about the new Civic hatchback Touring, it has pretty much everything you would ever want... fun to drive, quality, reliability, space, cheaper to maintain, high resale value and I like the looks of the new Civic. I don't need prestige cars like BMW and Audi, waste of money as even the entry level trims come with no features and cost so much to buy and operate. And to me the interior of the new econo vehicles look just as nice.
The new Civic Touring even has rear heated seats and radar cruise control, something that even some of the expensive BMWs and Mercedes do not have. Why would I buy those cars? And please don't tell me for driving... how many people are driving these BMWs to even half their potential, i'm thinking very very few. Heck I see people in BMWs all the time who can't even maintain their lane when making a left turn LOL! If they wanted fun to drive then driving lessons would be a better investment than buying a BMW. Most just buy it to show off.
First of all, I do agree with you that dream cars are out of reach for some of us if we are committed to the obligations and realities of being mature and conforming adults. I had a few fun things when I was young, then I had kids and it all went away and I am now that practical Mr. Dad that drives a bland 4 door to and from work every day.
Why? If you're a car guy, you can include the family in the hobby right from a young age. I know plenty of car guys that have multi-generational participation in the hobby without ever going bland and boring. Ever.
Being "committed to the obligations and realities of being mature and conforming adults" sounds like you've procreated and now you're just waiting to die. One of the faceless masses.
I guess someone has to be the faceless bland masses so the rest of us can stand out...
For example, when the kid was 10, we bought a classic sports car project and the family restored it together, and then we taught him to drive stick in it when he was just 13. At 15, he and I rebuilt his own classic hot rod pickup that, even after a string of fun cars, he still owns and has big plans for. Not long after being married, I taught my wife how to autocross, as she was already into cars and could do her own wrenching.
The family that plays together, stays together, and I can be just as mature and adult without ever giving up my hobby. I feel sorry for guys (and gals ) that think they have to give up their hobby because they think they have to, or they are being forced to by a significant other.
Being a car guy who isn't good with a wrench is tough. If I were to buy a used Subaru sti, the odds are nearly 100% that it was abused. It comes down to whether or not it was maintained. No one buys a performance car and drives 5 under in the slow lane. A used performance car could end up costing more than a new one over a 10 year span, easily.
Some people spend 10k on a family vacation. To me, that's not worth it because once the vacation is over all you're left with is memories and some pictures. If I'm going to indulge, I want it to be on something I can use for years to come. I can afford the car now, but my retirement savings would definitely take a hit. Is it worth it to not save a bunch for 5-6 years to have a car that could last me 15 years or more? I'm having a hard time justifying this decision. I tell myself I can just go get it, but then I think about what 30-40k can do with compound interest and I feel bad about it again ha.
Being a car guy who isn't good with a wrench is tough. If I were to buy a used Subaru sti, the odds are nearly 100% that it was abused. It comes down to whether or not it was maintained. No one buys a performance car and drives 5 under in the slow lane. A used performance car could end up costing more than a new one over a 10 year span, easily.
Some people spend 10k on a family vacation. To me, that's not worth it because once the vacation is over all you're left with is memories and some pictures. If I'm going to indulge, I want it to be on something I can use for years to come. I can afford the car now, but my retirement savings would definitely take a hit. Is it worth it to not save a bunch for 5-6 years to have a car that could last me 15 years or more? I'm having a hard time justifying this decision. I tell myself I can just go get it, but then I think about what 30-40k can do with compound interest and I feel bad about it again ha.
I used to think like this as well. To make a long story short, those memories and photos are worth way more than a bunch of stuff that isn't worth $0.10 on the dollar what you paid for it. Seriously.
I used to think like this as well. To make a long story short, those memories and photos are worth way more than a bunch of stuff that isn't worth $0.10 on the dollar what you paid for it. Seriously.
You do realize you can make memories with cars, as well, right? Time spent wrenching with the kids, road trips, maybe a family outing at the track, etc. I've got plenty of memories tied to playing with cars, and those mean as much to me as memories of cruises or vacations.
Why? If you're a car guy, you can include the family in the hobby right from a young age. I know plenty of car guys that have multi-generational participation in the hobby without ever going bland and boring. Ever.
Being "committed to the obligations and realities of being mature and conforming adults" sounds like you've procreated and now you're just waiting to die. One of the faceless masses.
I guess someone has to be the faceless bland masses so the rest of us can stand out...
For example, when the kid was 10, we bought a classic sports car project and the family restored it together, and then we taught him to drive stick in it when he was just 13. At 15, he and I rebuilt his own classic hot rod pickup that, even after a string of fun cars, he still owns and has big plans for. Not long after being married, I taught my wife how to autocross, as she was already into cars and could do her own wrenching.
The family that plays together, stays together, and I can be just as mature and adult without ever giving up my hobby. I feel sorry for guys (and gals ) that think they have to give up their hobby because they think they have to, or they are being forced to by a significant other.
While I agree with your general point, circumstances didn't line up for me to get to enjoy the same hobbies (cars) as my kids. Rather than try to force mine on them, I have put my love for cars to work as a career and use it to support them in the things they like. No one forced me, and my significant other would never do that, it was my own decision. Other things simply took priority and I haven't made it back to fun vehicles yet.
My kids would tell you I am hardly a part of the "faceless bland masses" and have had more fun helping them be amazing young human beings that enjoy doing the unexpected or unconventional at times.
I agree. But if I save up a nice retirement account and die 5 years before retirement, was it all worth it? Money can't buy happiness, but the lack of it brings severe misery.
You're trying to make it a black and white scenario, which it rarely ever is. Lots of us have a retirement account and still do things that we enjoy. We just learned to live within our means. If that realistically means that a $70k Corvette is out of my wheelhouse, it just is. But patience means that one day in the future I can buy that car used for half of that and get the same enjoyment I would have gotten had I bought it new, minus depreciation and the huge payment.
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Originally Posted by tonybarnaby
That's what my dad taught me. I watched him earn 1.5 million over a 10 year stretch. He saved nothing and ended up dying with 10s of thousands of dollars of debt. While he was alive, he lived and did what he loved, which was golf, eat expensive food, gamble and travel. Had he lived to retirement age he would have been in a very bad place, but he ended up passing away at 62.
We don't know how long we are going to live. What if he had lived to 85? Blowing all your money on a car and never having anything set aside for a time when you may need it seems foolish to me. Your mileage may vary. I also know that I don't want debt that I created to be a burden to my wife and kids if I die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonybarnaby
Did he live more, or did someone who deprived themselves their entire life and then retired with 2 million in their 401k? Very few people can live it up while they are young and have a cushy retirement. Will I enjoy a fast car now more than I will having extra money when I am 62? I wrestle with that all the time. I've held off this long, thankfully.
As I said above, most of us do not deprive ourselves of anything. I don't know many people who sit at home with nothing to do just for the sake of saving a buck. We all do things, we just do them within our means and in moderation. That car might last you 5-10 years and give you a few hours of pleasure when you drive it, but will it help you survive? Probably not. It's all in where your priorities lie.
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