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Wilson, you have some serious superiority issues. Between me wasting your time with my uninformed interpretation, my layman's opinions, or my know-it-all personality, I feel severely unqualified to discuss this issue with you.
But, just for the record, my local ACLU chapter WILL take interest in misdemeanor traffic cases, but only on appeal - that is AFTER a loss at the kangaroo court level - presumably the one where you work.
If you really are a traffic court defense attorney as your post (#270) states, I feel for your clients - or the know-it-alls, as you call them.
Quote:
But then if I get a ticket, I don't need to spend thousands on legal fees because I am in court every day defending know it alls like you.
BTW, if you hit submit on your post, a copy is sent to everyone subscribed. Don't blame me for taking your post at face value. Could have, should have, would have. That horse has left the stable.
I'd go into more detail on what I've learned with regard to this specific issue, but it's clear I'd be wasting your time.
I flashed my lights and was pulled over by a cop that was running a second speed trap a few miles away. He told me I could get a ticket for obstructing justice. It would certainly be interesting to watch them waste the time trying to prosecute that while my attorney was carving them up in court. In the end, I received no ticket because there was no crime. Stupid cops.
Wilson, you have some serious superiority issues. Between me wasting your time with my uninformed interpretation, my layman's opinions, or my know-it-all personality, I feel severely unqualified to discuss this issue with you.
But, just for the record, my local ACLU chapter WILL take interest in misdemeanor traffic cases, but only on appeal - that is AFTER a loss at the kangaroo court level - presumably the one where you work.
If you really are a traffic court defense attorney as your post (#270) states, I feel for your clients - or the know-it-alls, as you call them.
BTW, if you hit submit on your post, a copy is sent to everyone subscribed. Don't blame me for taking your post at face value. Could have, should have, would have. That horse has left the stable.
I'd go into more detail on what I've learned with regard to this specific issue, but it's clear I'd be wasting your time.
What would the ACLU issue be? Christian police and Muslim light flashers?
(A) No person, with purpose to hinder the discovery, apprehension, prosecution, conviction, or punishment of another for crime or to assist another to benefit from the commission of a crime, and no person, with purpose to hinder the discovery, apprehension, prosecution, adjudication as a delinquent child, or disposition of a child for an act that if committed by an adult would be a crime or to assist a child to benefit from the commission of an act that if committed by an adult would be a crime, shall do any of the following:
*(3) Warn the other person or child of impending discovery or apprehension;*
They can read that in a way as to successfully prosecute someone who flashed their lights.
The police officer is there to discover the crime; the person flashing their lights is hindering discovery.
OK, Ohio doesn't have a light flashing case, but how about the case where the friend outside the apartment yells "task force" as the police roll up. With no evidence that the warning was even heard or that the defendant knew the occupants of the apartment were engaged in wrongdoing, the Court of Appeals for Ohio Second District affirmed the "yeller's" conviction:
This matter is before the court on the Notice of Appeal of James McGary Hubler, filed November 18, 2004. Following a bench trial, Hubler was convicted of attempted obstruction of justice, in violation of R.C. 2921.32(A)(3), and he received a suspended sentence of six months in prison, a three-year term of community control sanctions, and 30 days in the Montgomery County jail. He was initially indicted for obstruction of justice.
Crawford hired Hubler, a long time friend, to replace windows in the building, and Hubler was working in the side yard of the property when seven officers arrived to execute the search warrant. Hubler yelled, "Task force," more than once in the direction of apartment 3. At trial, Hubler initially stated on direct examination that his purpose was to alert Crawford to the officers' presence. On cross examination, however, he stated that he did not have a purpose in announcing their arrival and that he merely overreacted.
We conclude that the evidence is legally sufficient to convict Hubler of attempted obstruction of justice. Obstruction of justice occurs when a "person, with purpose to hinder the discovery, apprehension, prosecution, conviction, punishment of another for crime * * * warns the other person * * * of impending discovery or apprehension." R.C. 2921.32(A)(3). The trial court found Hubler not [**4] guilty of the indicted charge of obstruction of justice because the State did not establish that Crenshaw or anyone else in apartment 3 actually heard the warnings issued by Hubler. Pursuant to R.C. 2923.02, however, Hubler engaged in conduct that, if successful, constitutes obstruction of justice. It was for the trial court to determine the credibility of the witnesses at trial, and it found Hubler's contradictory testimony to be "totally unbelievable." The officers' testimony, if believed, showed that Hubler's conduct in yelling, "task force," intended to warn the occupants of apartment 3, which constitutes an attempt to obstruct justice. Further, after reviewing the entire record, . . . A new trial is not warranted. Hubler's sole assignment of error is overruled, and the judgment of the trial court is affirmed.
[CENTER] 2006 Ohio 260, *; 2006 Ohio App. LEXIS 216, [/CENTER]
STATE OF OHIO, Plaintiff-Appellee v. JAMES MCGARY HUBLER, Defendant-AppellantC.A. CASE NO. 20790 COURT OF APPEALS OF OHIO, SECOND APPELLATE DISTRICT, MONTGOMERY COUNTY2006 Ohio 260; 2006 Ohio App. LEXIS 216
Freedom of speech is a civil liberty. Violations of this liberty make it a strong interest issue for the ACLU. It doesn't always have to be about religion.
Your OH case is interesting. Do you really think that yelling "task force!" several times in an appartment complex as seven officers approach is even remotely the same as a general "heads up, pay attention" courtesy flash to everyone rolling towards you? The police were there to execute a warrant. They had a target which they were approaching. A cop running radar has no specific target and is fishing for one.
If this case were to be applied to vehicular warnings, then why wouldn't the traffic reporter who says "speed enforcement on the 407 at exit 25" be arrested/ticketed? Or why is the AAA billboard over the town of Lawtey, FLwarning motorists of speed trap locations legal?
Your OH case is interesting. Do you really think that yelling "task force!" several times in an appartment complex as seven officers approach is even remotely the same as a general "heads up, pay attention" courtesy flash to everyone rolling towards you? The police were there to execute a warrant. They had a target which they were approaching. A cop running radar has no specific target and is fishing for one.
As though I didn't predict this . . . .
While you are distinguishing this case on the grounds that there was a warrant involved and the police had a specific target (even though the court did not identify that as a reason), please explain how it is that defendant Hubler would know that the police had a warrant and were seeking a specific target as they rolled up to the apartment? Oh, you think that the motives of the police should support a conviction or not. Hmmmmm. That interesting.
Just got a ticket in Mckinney, TX for flashing to warn oncoming traffic of speed trap. a cop saw me and pulled me over and to my surprise she said it was illegal. I had no idea. I was just trying to be the samaritan man...well...if I broke the law then i must pay for it, but I won't do it again. let everyone be responsible for his own action...
There is nothing in the Texas transportation code that prohibits the flashing of your vehicle lights (as long as it's not a continuous flashing). They are using a vague and open description of a hindering sign/signaling device law in the sec 544.006. They are wrong and the ticket's get thrown out regularly. Even in McKinney.
Freedom of speech is a civil liberty. Violations of this liberty make it a strong interest issue for the ACLU. It doesn't always have to be about religion.
The law doesn't forbid speech, it forbids interfering with a police officer during the execution of their duties.
Freedom of speech is not absolute.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkme73
Your OH case is interesting. Do you really think that yelling "task force!" several times in an appartment complex as seven officers approach is even remotely the same as a general "heads up, pay attention" courtesy flash to everyone rolling towards you? The police were there to execute a warrant. They had a target which they were approaching. A cop running radar has no specific target and is fishing for one.
It can be construed the same way. A cop running radar isn't "fishing" for a target. They are coming to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by erkme73
If this case were to be applied to vehicular warnings, then why wouldn't the traffic reporter who says "speed enforcement on the 407 at exit 25" be arrested/ticketed? Or why is the AAA billboard over the town of Lawtey, FLwarning motorists of speed trap locations legal?
Who said they are legal? It's just not worth doing anything about.
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