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I think in this scenario, the BRZ/FRS/FT86 was a joint venture between Toyota and Subaru. Here in America, it was placed under the Scion badge which was recently dissolved. I'm not sure why Subaru and Toyota felt the need to come up with different model numbers for basically the same car.
For the same reason Toyota and Nissan did it for Lexus and Infiniti. How many would buy a Toyota Altezza if it werent sold under the(at the time US only market) name Lexus IS400? How about the Toyota Soarer? The original point of Lexus was to sell the upscale luxury models of Toyota in the US. They figured we wouldn't put too much stock in a luxury toyota and if it weren't for Lexus, that might be partly.true an if so and it didn't happen the LFA would probably be a Supra and so fourth.
Mazda's had a hardtop convertible for years.
Bottom line... you and a small number of other people like the 86.
It never moved even 700 units in any month last year.
Meanwhile the worst month any of the Detroit 3's offerings last year was the Challenger's 3908 in November.
The hype was that the pony car's days were over and it was going to reign.
Then came reality. Don't know if the market was misjudged or the execution was poor or both, but boy, did it lay an egg.
Here's an interesting tidbit...
Despite all of it's flaws, the Pontiac Solstice actually outsold the Miata from 2006-2008, something the 86 has never come close to doing.
So it's not as is dethroning the champ is some impossible feat. It has happened before.
It's not even the Miatas competitor and the Subie actually outsold it's counterpart. The Solstice/Sky was a little bigger, had more.power and was(Soltice) part of the retro thing that was big back then. Either way all that does is talk about who bought them, not who was actually driving them and tracking them. The Ecotec was pretty hard to work with tuning wise. Also why the butt-ugly Solstice outsold the Sky; it wasn't as aerodynamic, didn't even looknas good as the Sky...or the Speedster they're based off of...but it was retro...same reason many bought the HHR and the SSR...the PT cruiser...the S197 Mustangs. Sales don't mean much, not in this case where we're talking about what the car can do and should do.
Interesting discussion. When I saw the first "86" badge on one of these cars, I really thought it said "H6". As in, Subaru H-6 3.0 engine.
So the solution to low power is (maybe) staring them in the face.
From what I have heard, the transmission is not too robust, so that needs an upgrade too.
This would need to be done in a way that does not screw up the 50-50 weight distribution. That might not be a very simple thing to do, but I am certain it can be done.
Failing all that, a turbo setup on the existing 4 pot can make whatever level of horsepower people are willing to pay for.
"Just sayin'".
Subarus 4banger has more.aftermarket and is easier modable than their flat6. Just about every perfoemance model has a turbo4 in it, even the Forester XT with basically an STi drivetrain in it.
Everybody thinks they're overpowered...even for what they're intended for. They may be light, but they still outwiegh the mx5, S2K(which had over 200hp), maybe even the straight six Z4.. 200hp in a...2200 lb or so car is like the 250 in my car; yeah it moves, but it's not enough. They don't even offer a turbo(thanks Toyota...) and just about every subaru model at least have a turbo motor as an option, except maybe the B9 Tribeca. I'd like to see an STi drivetrain in one. Speaking of that; the STi and WRX..and Impreza have more than 200hp and the latter two were intended for about the same thing. a 2700lb STi has over 300hp, shouldn't the BRZ/FT86 have at least 250/60, if not 300?
Why? More hp means more structural metal, heavier duty suspension and brakes, etc, and it just adds more weight. In order to NOT add weight, you use more exotic materials which add cost. The BRZ/FRS cost less than an STi (which, BTW, weighs 3300lbs, a 600 lb increase over the BRZ!). The STI drivetrain will not fit in one. You can't have the AWD or factory turbo placement. In fact, due to the flat 4, there is no physical way of MAKING an AWD system as the front axles would come out of the tops of the pistons and heads! You can't have a front diff in the middle of the engine.
No, the BRZ/FRS/86 is going to be a RWD only car, and let the aftermarket devise a workable turbo placement (since the exhaust has to be routed around the front suspension and crossmember that it doesn't have to do in the FWD/AWD Impreza/WRX/STI).
I think that's too bad. I don't know why -- I really like the Scion products and more importantly the Scion business model (the no-dicker-sticker).
The last time I bought a Scion for my aging mother, we did it from her kitchen table. I called the two Scion dealers in town to find out if they had the color - and the *only* discussion was how much I could put on a credit card (I wanted the frequent flyer miles). One dealer said they had a max of $5K on a credit card (of course, the dealer has to eat the credit card transaction fee). A second dealer let me put the entire transaction on a credit card.
Again, from my mom's kitchen table, I arranged for the trade-in of her old beater (10 years old with about 300,000 miles on it and falling apart).
Not only that, but I arranged for the Scion dealer to deliver the car to my mom & drive her beater away. I did all the paperwork from her kitchen table, including signing the credit card receipt.
THAT is a wonderful business model that I'll miss.
Still think of this car as a modern version of the Celica, a 4 seater sports coupe with good handling. Replace the factory tires with summer sports tires and you gain more performance. Too bad Subaru didn't offer their WRX STI turbo and transmission.
The 86 is in no way a Celica in any sort of the word. Drivetrain layout is different, engine style is different, its purpose in life is different. And replacing the tires would be a big mistake in my book. Toyota provides those tires because theyre a perfect mix of grip/drift. The car's drift capabilities are phenomenal (the 86's sole redeeming factor, IMO), mostly because of the tires. Subaru sets the BR-Z up more for grip driving than Toyota does the 86.
Still think of this car as a modern version of the Celica, a 4 seater sports coupe with good handling. Replace the factory tires with summer sports tires and you gain more performance. Too bad Subaru didn't offer their WRX STI turbo and transmission.
There was lots of rumors Subaru would make a turbocharged STi version of the BRZ. That would have been a compelling car but I don't think it will happen at this point.
The 86 is in no way a Celica in any sort of the word. Drivetrain layout is different, engine style is different, its purpose in life is different. And replacing the tires would be a big mistake in my book. Toyota provides those tires because theyre a perfect mix of grip/drift. The car's drift capabilities are phenomenal (the 86's sole redeeming factor, IMO), mostly because of the tires. Subaru sets the BR-Z up more for grip driving than Toyota does the 86.
The first decade or two of the Celica was RWD, four cylinder, sporty, economical car that offered fun driving, sporty looks, seats 4, at a good price.
The first decade or two of the Celica was RWD, four cylinder, sporty, economical car that offered fun driving, sporty looks, seats 4, at a good price.
"Good price" is what these cars are not. They are imported, and I believe the price reflects that. I believe my buddy paid up to 30k for his. New Miatas are also overpriced in my opinion. A USA made roadster that is priced well should be put to market. 24k at the most.
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