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One thing I've always wondered about s/s is how does the engine stay warm in the winter and keep the interior of the car warm. Does it have an electric heater somewhere that kicks in to provide heat to the interior when the engine is off?
Start/stop technology isn't as simply as the car turning off at every stop. There are a few variables that goes into play.
IMO, if start/stop was a problem, we'd hear more about it. Dead starters that cost $$$$ to replace would be on this forum and others. I have no doubt that a) S/S increases wear, b) the starter is oversized as a result, c) it will cost more to replace. But it seems like a problem that doesn't exist.
I have heard of newer systems that attempt to stop the engine so that the ECU just has to fire a sparkplug and the engine fires right up. No starter required. Pretty cool trick I think.
"Why 2006?"
Partly coincidence; that just happens to be the year of the last vehicles I bought (2 ATVs and a PT Cruiser).
Partly styling. I do not like the Jeep Wranglers from 2007 on. I had a 2006 Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited, and it was a good looking Jeep, fun to drive. Then they changed the body lines and did away with the venerable and bulletproof 4.0 inline 6 in favor of a V6. But then, that is pretty much irrelevant, because it is extremely doubtful I will ever get another Jeep. I like my truck too much.
Partly electronics. Some of these things are not repairable. Well, OK, perhaps they are repairable, IF one can find somebody to do it. When they die, and no replacements are available, the vehicle will instantly become useless, unless somebody comes up with a method of removing the computer and doing a "wire-around" so the engine will still run. I found a method for doing just that on older Jeeps. Remove the computer and the computer controlled carburetor (and the associated wiring), install a "normal" carb, and wire the ignition to the original diagram before the computer. Reset the timing, and the thing ran great!
With the ECUs of today, that is probably impossible without rewiring the entire vehicle. Nearly everything is controlled by the computer!
Partly price. New(er) vehicles are incredibly expensive. A new vehicle can cost 7 times what I paid for my first house, twice what I paid for my second house, and half of what I paid for the house we are now living in. I won't live long enough to get a new vehicle paid for, nor will I live long enough to save up and pay cash for one.
No, I am perfectly happy with my 1999 truck, my 2006 car, my 2002 motorhome, and my 2006 ATVs.
I neither need nor want anything newer.
Anyone have thoughts on the auto stop/start feature on newer cars designed to save on gas by stopping the engine at lights/ stops? Seems like it may cause excessive wear on the engine by all the stopping and starting. But it's touted as a good feature.
Yes, the cranking motor IS "stressed", as is the drive system ("Bendix") on the cranking motor shaft.
The more often it is used, the sooner it will fail. That applies to all parts of the system; solenoids, gears, brushes, commutator bars, bushings, bearings, etc.
Systems like this are one of the reasons I own nothing, and will never buy anything, newer than 2006.
Sorry pal, but you reveal your lack of knowledge when mentioning "brushes". You're stuck in the nineties!
I can see its value on a car that is striving to get a good gas mileage rating... but that isn't a consideration for anyone buying an ML63. A bit pointless for a vehicle with a thirsty engine like mine.
Agreed.
Fuel economy has never been a huge concern for me, so I personally rather disable it. I had a new Mercedes C300 loaner that had the feature. I just personally wasn't a fan of it, and gave it a try, but would up disabling it every time I drove the car before I gave it back.
It was fast though. Engine was restarted by the time my foot left the brake and onto the gas. I even attempted to beat it and just couldn't.
The starting systems are beefed up for this feature. Starters are beefier, the engine mounts sturdier, and the charging/battery systems are a bit heavier duty. The programming is written so that the feature works around the demands of AC and heating needs, and some systems will even auto-disable if the battery shows signs of weakening and needs to be replaced.
Personally, I'm all for new technology on vehicles. But this one I'm not really all that excited about.
Sorry pal, but you reveal your lack of knowledge when mentioning "brushes". You're stuck in the nineties!
So, "pal" you are saying that a high-torque brushless electric motor will not wear out sooner the more it is used?
Even if it has ball and/or roller bearings instead of bushings, there is still a finite life for all moving parts. OK, so new cranking motors do not have brushes or commutators. It doesn't matter (if true); the more something is used, the sooner it will require rebuild or replacement!
Uncle Sam mandating crap in an industry which they know nothing about and forcing "efficiencies" on the manufacturers that may or may not work, and can be overridden with a switch anyway. I'm not a fan but think we are screwed anyway due to governmental controls that the masses blindly allow our "leadership" to impose on us.
Rant over.
The government didn't mandate it, the manufacturers began to install it when they started to require more stringent fuel economy regulations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theedgeoflight
One thing I've always wondered about s/s is how does the engine stay warm in the winter and keep the interior of the car warm. Does it have an electric heater somewhere that kicks in to provide heat to the interior when the engine is off?
I found that when cranking the heater or ac, it wouldn't shut off. It was automatic, but somewhat intelligent and fast reacting as well. Even adjusting the fan or temp would cause it to fire back up.
As to the added wear, I'm not so sure, it didn't crank and start up in the same way as you're typically used to. I can't put my finger on it to describe it thouhg.
So, "pal" you are saying that a high-torque brushless electric motor will not wear out sooner the more it is used?
Even if it has ball and/or roller bearings instead of bushings, there is still a finite life for all moving parts. OK, so new cranking motors do not have brushes or commutators. It doesn't matter (if true); the more something is used, the sooner it will require rebuild or replacement!
These aren't the starter motors found in your cars, and you must consider the total minutes the engine is idle while stopped when calculating drive train wear.
The end.
modern features combined like gear-reduction starters (lower wear and lower drain on battery), modern oils (help protect with additives that 'coat' system while 'off'), & fuel injection (won't 'overprime' engine and wash away protective oils), and modern ECU control (already mentioned) pretty much 'eliminate' the OLD concerns of 'wear on engine during starting' .
Yes to this, not too mention that the worse part of starting an engine causing wear is starting a COLD engine, not up to temp, and where the oil has drained into the pan. Auto stop/start won't kick in until the engine is up to temp, eliminating the cold start issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theedgeoflight
One thing I've always wondered about s/s is how does the engine stay warm in the winter and keep the interior of the car warm. Does it have an electric heater somewhere that kicks in to provide heat to the interior when the engine is off?
Each manufacturer is a little different, but most won't turn off if it can't maintain temperature either hot or cold. In the heat, plenty of them will shut off for a bit, but at a long light will turn back on to get the AC running again before it otherwise would.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasCrown
My ML63 has it. I usually disable it when I start the car. I can see its value on a car that is striving to get a good gas mileage rating... but that isn't a consideration for anyone buying an ML63. A bit pointless for a vehicle with a thirsty engine like mine.
True, it is not really for you, it is for the EPA/CAFE numbers. Heaving every car get a better rating for its gas milage (including the gas guzzlers) is important for every manufacturer. That's also why these features default to on every time you restart the car in many cases, because if it doesn't. the EPA test can't include them.
I've driven all sorts of cars with this feature, and some are hardly noticeable, and some are a little bothersome because of how rough they start. Depends up the motor/vehicle, but they do seem to be getting better all the time.
Every time this topic comes up on this forum (and a few others) there are all these people saying the wear will be so bad, etc.... But there is 0 evidence of this. As noted in this thread, starters and the technology to stop and quickly restart the car have changed and are designed to handle the increased cycles. It has been around for a while on some vehicles, and there aren't any huge complaints about wear (or really any at all that can be attributed to this technology).
The wifes 2017 Escape Titanium comes with an electric heater when the engine isn't up to full temps. The engine will shut down in the summer and when the AC compressor would kick on, the engine starts again to cool the car. The thing that bothers me most about the electric heater is that it has to be hard on the battery. The battery in this model car is buried under and behind the intake system which has to come off to even see the battery. Otherwise, the battery is under the hood but also under the dash. Cleaning terminals should be a real killer of a job. From the looks of what I could see of it, it's not a large capacity battery, just a plain old glass mat 48H6 760 amp Motorcraft battery. In our Texas heat, I doubt a battery will last long being cooked where it's at. I guess the wife is about to find out.
As far as I'm concerned, this is a dealer repair type of car. I can't even get far enough under it to take half of the bottom off of it to change the oil. It's nothing but an aero shield under the car that has to come off. I don't have ramps that high and the wife is adamant I'm not turning it over to change the oil. She goes to the dealer for anything on it.
Yes, the start/stop feature is a CAFE feature. The newest regs are pretty tight about CAFE and most car makers are going to have a tough time hitting the 2020 regs, if at all. That's why you're seeing all of the new technologies under the hood, some of which are so buried you as an owner can't get to it. Some of the car makers with a few of their models will apparently have to discontinue the lines as they have nothing in the pipeline to put in some of their vehicles that will meet the 2020 regs. Hopefully, the current administration will back off of the crazy mandates by morons that don't have a clue how to open a hood.
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