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Old 05-17-2017, 03:22 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
12,350 posts, read 9,632,160 times
Reputation: 13890

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Huh?

A Crown Vic has a reliable drive train and a reputation as being easy to repair. It's RWD so everything is easy to access. All those cop cars and taxi cabs logged an enormous number of miles with constant abuse. It's ancient technology. Other than an engine rebuild, there's no repair on that car that could possibly cost $5K.
Correct.

Whatever models he's talking about are not panthers. Very believable for Cadillac....and maybe certain problematic FWD Ford products, but not Grand Marquis, Crown Vics, or Town Cars.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,113 posts, read 56,733,078 times
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Is that air bag suspension only available as parts from Ford? I do hear of a lot of guys going to a conventional rear suspension when the air bags fail, maybe there is no cheap fix available?
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:50 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,625,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manyroads View Post
I understand your point of view. Just as a heads up in case you decide to keep the Grand Marquis for a while, if that car has a rear air suspension like my Town Car does, I've read that the life of the air springs is about 10 years. I know that one of mine has a slow leak in it. Some people eventually do a conversion to regular shocks and springs as replacing components of the air suspension system can get very expensive (depending on how many parts need replacing).

Since you probably have the same engine as mine in your car, I've also had some intermittent problems with the throttle position sensor, which causes the engine to go into "limp mode" (LOL) and run on somewhat reduced power. Mine hasn't gotten so bad yet that I need to replace the sensors (there are 2 of them).

The Town Car also has a well-documented problem with water getting into the cabin through the outside air intake after the foam rubber seal deteriorates. Don't know if the Grand Marquis is designed the same way; hopefully that problem was corrected on your car since it's a few years newer than mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Is that air bag suspension only available as parts from Ford? I do hear of a lot of guys going to a conventional rear suspension when the air bags fail, maybe there is no cheap fix available?
i would suggest contacting ride tech RideTech.com - Performance Suspension Specialist and find out if they have a solution to the air spring issue on ford so equipped. they have been in the air suspension game for many years now. fortunately when ford did the air ride suspension, they left the possibility of switching to earlier coil springs easily enough.

as for the drive by wire system, i also am starting to have minor issues with my merc. nothing that bothers me at the moment though.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:56 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
12,350 posts, read 9,632,160 times
Reputation: 13890
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Is that air bag suspension only available as parts from Ford? I do hear of a lot of guys going to a conventional rear suspension when the air bags fail, maybe there is no cheap fix available?
No, there are other aftermarket companies that make and sell them. Problem is, there are a number of different components of the system that can and eventually will fail - like the air compressor and vent solenoids, in addition to the air springs. By the time you get done with troubleshooting and replacing multiple components, you've spent a lot more $$ than the coil conversion.

Bottom line is that old air suspension systems become a real PITA. Convert to coils and you're trouble free for longer than you'll own the car.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:12 PM
 
1,081 posts, read 2,456,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
I've seen a bunch of Lincoln, Cadillac, and Mercury late models going for cheap, like a 1/3 of their MSRP for just 5-7 yr old cars. Really bad depreciation. The word is that repairs are very costly for many of these cars that charges $5k+ jobs. So it's been priced into the resale price.

Vs something like a Civic 2009 still fetches $7-11k while it MSRP for $23k tops.
Yes, unfortunately Lincoln and Mercury cars do not have very good resale value. The value of my car now at 12 years old and 120K miles is abysmal. There are old Honda CR-Vs out there with similar mileage that are priced thousands of dollars higher than my car, even though my car had an MSRP of over $44K when it was new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Huh?

A Crown Vic has a reliable drive train and a reputation as being easy to repair. It's RWD so everything is easy to access. All those cop cars and taxi cabs logged an enormous number of miles with constant abuse. It's ancient technology. Other than an engine rebuild, there's no repair on that car that could possibly cost $5K.
The standard Crown Vic and Grand Marquis might be reliable cars, but I don't think it's fair to compare them to the police and taxi versions of the Crown Vic. The Crown Vic Police Interceptor had numerous changes made to it to have it withstand the level of use that it would be put through as a police car. I assume the same is true of the Crown Vics that were built specifically for taxi use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C...Crown_Victoria

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
The air suspension will usually go 15 years....and much longer if you're lucky. Just last week I converted my '95 Town Car to coils, so mine went 22 years. My '95 Crown Vic before that lasted almost 16 years.
Either you've been very lucky or I've been unlucky with my air suspension. I sprayed soapy water on the air springs and saw bubbles on the right one, which indicates a leak. The air suspension light has gone on once so far. The right side of the car has about an inch less clearance between the body and tires than the left side of the car. I didn't see any damage to the front springs, though, and it doesn't bounce repeatedly if you press down on the body. I haven't had a mechanic look at this yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Is that air bag suspension only available as parts from Ford? I do hear of a lot of guys going to a conventional rear suspension when the air bags fail, maybe there is no cheap fix available?
There are aftermarket replacements available for the air springs that are much cheaper than the OEM parts and can be installed by someone with mechanical ability on their own. But the air suspension system as a whole is complex, and I've heard that replacing other parts can get expensive. Frequently the air compressor will burn out and need to be replaced because it is running too often trying to put air into leaking air springs.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:13 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,625,497 times
Reputation: 20027
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
No, there are other aftermarket companies that make and sell them. Problem is, there are a number of different components of the system that can and eventually will fail - like the air compressor and vent solenoids, in addition to the air springs. By the time you get done with troubleshooting and replacing multiple components, you've spent a lot more $$ than the coil conversion.

Bottom line is that old air suspension systems become a real PITA. Convert to coils and you're trouble free for longer than you'll own the car.
very true. especially with the factory system. i will say however that aftermarket systems are better than the factory ones.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:20 PM
 
1,081 posts, read 2,456,257 times
Reputation: 1182
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrownVic95 View Post
No, there are other aftermarket companies that make and sell them. Problem is, there are a number of different components of the system that can and eventually will fail - like the air compressor and vent solenoids, in addition to the air springs. By the time you get done with troubleshooting and replacing multiple components, you've spent a lot more $$ than the coil conversion.

Bottom line is that old air suspension systems become a real PITA. Convert to coils and you're trouble free for longer than you'll own the car.
Exactly! I couldn't have explained this better myself.

I know that Strutmasters has a conversion kit available for my car, and their factory is located within an hour or so of where I live. They can do the work right there for you.
http://www.strutmasters.com/

If I keep my TC, I am definitely going to consider doing the conversion. Right now, the ride is still good. It's just the slight leaning of the car to the right that's annoying to me.
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:22 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
12,350 posts, read 9,632,160 times
Reputation: 13890
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyroads View Post
The standard Crown Vic and Grand Marquis might be reliable cars, but I don't think it's fair to compare them to the police and taxi versions of the Crown Vic. The Crown Vic Police Interceptor had numerous changes made to it to have it withstand the level of use that it would be put through as a police car. I assume the same is true of the Crown Vics that were built specifically for taxi use.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C...Crown_Victoria



Either you've been very lucky or I've been unlucky with my air suspension. I sprayed soapy water on the air springs and saw bubbles on the right one, which indicates a leak. The air suspension light has gone on once so far. The right side of the car has about an inch less clearance between the body and tires than the left side of the car. I didn't see any damage to the front springs, though, and it doesn't bounce repeatedly if you press down on the body. I haven't had a mechanic look at this yet.
True enough, but GeoffD's main point about the reliability of the Crown Vic's drive train is still valid.

Hard to say which for sure as my evidence is mostly anecdotal. But, of the cases I know about or have heard or read about, most systems aren't cashing in before about 15 years.
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Old 05-17-2017, 07:30 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
12,350 posts, read 9,632,160 times
Reputation: 13890
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyroads View Post
Exactly! I couldn't have explained this better myself.

I know that Strutmasters has a conversion kit available for my car, and their factory is located within an hour or so of where I live. They can do the work right there for you.
Air Suspension Conversion Kits, Suspension Parts, Air Struts - Strutmasters

If I keep my TC, I am definitely going to consider doing the conversion. Right now, the ride is still good. It's just the slight leaning of the car to the right that's annoying to me.
That basic Strutmasters kit for 129.00 looks like a bargain.

For mine, I went with the Arnott C-2614, $199 on their site. My local shop marked it up a bit, of course. Par for the course, at least in these parts.

https://www.arnottindustries.com/par...14_gid894.html

It's like a breath of fresh air not to have to worry about those "check air suspension" warnings and to not have to endure that incessant groaning of the compressor.
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Old 05-17-2017, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Pawtucket, RI
2,811 posts, read 2,152,260 times
Reputation: 1718
If it's leaning, the problem is probably a ride height sensor and it may just need an adjustment. Even if one bag is leaking, the other side would compensate to keep the rear level.

The Arnott system is great and relatively inexpensive. I would recommend it over a coil conversion any day.
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