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By that rationale why not every 10k miles? Or once a week? Why not rebuild your engine once a month? The harm is it's a giant waste of time and money.
Just do what your owner's manual tells you to do.
Remember, just because you did it in the 70's means doesn't mean it's applicable today. Materials and fluids have improved, engineering has gotten better, and efficiency and reliabilty have gone up, and maintence cycles have been extended.
One reason I like working on newer cars is because everything last longer so there isn't much to work on in the first place.
I think that the maintenance schedules have been extended so far because the manufacturer doesn't want the vehicle to last as long, so they'll ultimately sell more vehicles. IMO car manufacturers today make vehicles that will last until shortly after the warranty is up then they start falling apart. Planned obsolescence at its finest. They don't want to build a vehicle that will go 500k because that would put them out of business. It's the same reason why cars are so thin and cheaply made these days, they're designed to rust out quickly and to be more expensive to repair than it would be to just buy a new car. I've seen vehicles less than 10 years old with more rust than a car from the 80's, and both spent their life in my area of the country (northern WV).
It's much the same reason why fashion is constantly changing, or why new smart phones with barely any new features are released every month, or why newer appliances only last a few years, because that is what sells more product.
For instance, my mother still has her Kenmore microwave from 1987, and recently the magnetron went bad on it (Never had to do a thing to it in 30 years up until then, not even a bulb). Of course, like everyone else these days, she was all gung-ho to buy a new one, but I talked her out of it and fixed her old one and made it work just like new. I GUARANTEE that if she bought a new one it wouldn't last 5 years, because they're not built to last, they're built to sell. And having worked on that microwave as well as several newer ones, the quality between the two is incomparable. Nowadays the sheet metal on them is so thin and flimsy, I can pick up a new microwave with one arm, no way I could do that with that one from the 80's. There was a time where things were made to last, but it sure ain't today.
I think that the maintenance schedules have been extended so far because the manufacturer doesn't want the vehicle to last as long, so they'll ultimately sell more vehicles. IMO car manufacturers today make vehicles that will last until shortly after the warranty is up then they start falling apart. Planned obsolescence at its finest. They don't want to build a vehicle that will go 500k because that would put them out of business. It's the same reason why cars are so thin and cheaply made these days, they're designed to rust out quickly and to be more expensive to repair than it would be to just buy a new car. I've seen vehicles less than 10 years old with more rust than a car from the 80's, and both spent their life in my area of the country (northern WV).
It's much the same reason why fashion is constantly changing, or why new smart phones with barely any new features are released every month, or why newer appliances only last a few years, because that is what sells more product.
For instance, my mother still has her Kenmore microwave from 1987, and recently the magnetron went bad on it (Never had to do a thing to it in 30 years up until then, not even a bulb). Of course, like everyone else these days, she was all gung-ho to buy a new one, but I talked her out of it and fixed her old one and made it work just like new. I GUARANTEE that if she bought a new one it wouldn't last 5 years, because they're not built to last, they're built to sell. And having worked on that microwave as well as several newer ones, the quality between the two is incomparable. Nowadays the sheet metal on them is so thin and flimsy, I can pick up a new microwave with one arm, no way I could do that with that one from the 80's. There was a time where things were made to last, but it sure ain't today.
Your theory of planned obsolescence is a violation of the first law of the free market economy. If a brand is unreliable consumers will just move to a brand that is. Your theory is further disproven by the fact that modern cars statistically last longer. 200k is the new 100k.
Anecdotally I know this because every car I owned from before 2009 was a POS that spent more time in the shop than it did on the road. They were trash by 80k. Now 80k comes and goes and it still feels new. I drive a lot, own several cars at a time, and I buy and sell cars evidently far more often than you do so I'm privy to more real world ownership experiences across multiple makes, models, and years. I also rarely see old cars on the road.
Your theory of planned obsolescence is a violation of the first law of the free market economy. If a brand is unreliable consumers will just move to a brand that is. Your theory is further disproven by the fact that modern cars statistically last longer. 200k is the new 100k.
Anecdotally I know this because every car I owned from before 2009 was a POS that spent more time in the shop than it did on the road. They were trash by 80k. Now 80k comes and goes and it still feels new. I drive a lot, own several cars at a time, and I buy and sell cars evidently far more often than you do so I'm privy to more real world ownership experiences across multiple makes, models, and years. I also rarely see old cars on the road.
I worked at a car dealership for over 3 years and I saw how the majority of people treat their cars these days. Never spend a dime on maintenance, then when something major breaks they just trade it in instead of paying to fix it, because in their mind "I'll always have a car payment anyways, so I'll just get something new". I've had exactly two car payments in my life, paid in full in cash, so I can't relate to this way of thinking.
Also did the UVI's on the cars people traded in, everything from Fords and Chevys to BMW's, Mercedes, Subarus, Mitsubishis, you name it, so I've seen and worked on lots of the newer cars that are out on the road today and as I've said before they reached a tipping point on efficiency and practicality before diving headfirst into the "everything must be hooked to a computer" mentality.
I've seen plenty of old Hondas, Nissians, etc. from the late 80's- early 90's with well over 300k on them. Also seen plenty of Cavaliers, Sunfires, Sentras, Centuries, etc. with upwards of 200k and they're still going strong. So this idea that cars just recently are able to go 100k+ is completely false. In my area, rust will kill a car long before most mechanical failures will, as the annual state inspection doesn't allow any rust holes anywhere on the vehicle.
Maybe if you're talking about cars from the 50's and 60's, sure they're not going to go 100k with an engine rebuild, valve job, and lots of maintenance. But cars made in the 80's after the feedback carburetor nightmare of the early 80's are just as reliable as cars of today, and some are just as fuel efficient. They might not compete with the safety standards of today, but to say they didn't last as long or couldn't go over 100k is completely false. If you take car of your vehicle and don't use and abuse it, it will last you many years.
And you say that every car you owned before 2009 was a POS, did you ever think maybe that's because YOU bought a car that was a POS? You can't tell me that no car was reliable before 2009, there's always been good and bad cars out there, you just have to choose the right one. And a lot of it depends on how the previous owner treated it if you're buying a used car.
Last edited by jimmy12345678; 07-23-2017 at 10:25 AM..
Montana has no sales tax, and any vehicle 11 years old or older can have PERMANENT registration that never needs renewed until it is sold, then the new owner can get his own PERMANENT registration.
also, ALL trailers, regardless of size or type, have PERMANENT registration.
Motorcycles (incluging street legal ATVs), same thing.
Boats, also
There is no limitation to the use of a vehicle with PERMANENT registration.
How would you feel about me and my 50 vehicles relocating?
My immediate neighbor is a ranch girl from Montana... she would go back every year but stopped at 90... some great stories being snowed in for weeks at a time... but she said people were honest, hard working and the salt of the earth...
Last edited by Ultrarunner; 07-23-2017 at 11:18 AM..
By that rationale why not every 10k miles? Or once a week? Why not rebuild your engine once a month? The harm is it's a giant waste of time and money.
Just do what your owner's manual tells you to do.
Remember, just because you did it in the 70's means doesn't mean it's applicable today. Materials and fluids have improved, engineering has gotten better, and efficiency and reliabilty have gone up, and maintence cycles have been extended.
One reason I like working on newer cars is because everything last longer so there isn't much to work on in the first place.
I've seen cars last to 400k miles, but I also know they went through extensive rebuilds and replacements of major components some of which were required after breaking down at the wrong time. I have a family of 4 I take through 8 states and back once a year. There's no way in hell I'm driving a 500k mile 1970's POS. Cars are intended to be disposable. Keep a car too long and it's relegated to driving up to the mailbox because you don't know what component is about to go.
A good friend received as a graduation present from her parents a new Honda Accord... these were people of very modest means but overjoyed their one and only child became a nurse and could not have been prouder.
Anyway she put over 400k miles on that Accord commuting from Oakland to Stockton and with the original engine and transmission... her only expenses besides tires, brakes etc... Water pump and 3 fuel pumps... go figure on the fuel pump???
It's not the only long distance champ... I think she would still be driving it if she didn't need a larger car for her growing family.
Montana has no sales tax, and any vehicle 11 years old or older can have PERMANENT registration that never needs renewed until it is sold, then the new owner can get his own PERMANENT registration.
also, ALL trailers, regardless of size or type, have PERMANENT registration.
Motorcycles (incluging street legal ATVs), same thing.
Boats, also
There is no limitation to the use of a vehicle with PERMANENT registration.
I wish WV had a permanent tag for older vehicles. The closest we have are antique plates, which cost $50 for 10 years (a regular registration is $50 a year) and are for vehicles over 25 years old, but you can only drive it Friday thru Monday, on holidays, to car shows, etc., legally anyway, though it's not really enforced. The good part is that a state inspection is no longer required every year once you have antique plates. But I've seen a few people driving around in rusted out POS's with antique plates on them just to circumvent the annual inspection.
Cars are intended to be disposable. Keep a car too long and it's relegated to driving up to the mailbox because you don't know what component is about to go.
I completely disagree with that. If I'm the one that's maintained the car over the years, I know what's been done and what hasn't, so I have little fear of "what's going to go bad next" and wouldn't hesitate to hop in and drive it anywhere, regardless of how many miles are on it. As I've said before, it's not about how old the car is or how many miles are on it, it's about what kind of shape the body/frame is in and how it was treated/taken care of throughout its life. For example, I think that my Saturn was previously owned by a cheapskate who never fixed anything and just sold the car when it became too much trouble for them, as I had to do quite a bit of work when I first purchased it. New front pads and rotors, plugs and wires, front struts, outer tie rods, rear exhaust hanger, etc. but I've also gotten over 6 years of daily driving out of the car since then, averaging over 30 mpg city and highway, so to me it was worth fixing over buying something that was newer but needed less work at the start.
Also, when I purchase a car, I'm not looking to resell it in the future, so a repair exceeding the value of the vehicle is of little concern to me, as I'm going to drive that vehicle into the ground. If I can get another 5 years out of it by replacing the transmission, for example, then I'm going to do that over trading it off for another car, which is a whole other set of new problems just waiting to crop up. There's no reason IMO to reinvent the wheel and start from scratch simply because a part goes bad. When I get rid of my vehicles, they're going to the scrap yard, not being resold. As long as the vehicles body and frame are in good, solid shape, the car is worth fixing IMO, because everything else is just parts that can be swapped. Especially if it's a car that you know and love and that's great on gas, like my Saturn. As someone pointed out over on the Saturnfans forum "Old Saturns don't die, people KILL them, so check your damn oil!" I'd bet that tons of engine and transmission failures have occurred because the owner was too lazy/stupid to regularly check their fluids.
Last edited by jimmy12345678; 07-23-2017 at 11:40 AM..
I'm what you would call a Life Member of the Model A Ford Club...
For those that don't know... 5 million Model A Fords were made worldwide from late 1927 through 1931
No one would dispute that a car built in 1927 is old?
My little chapter tours year round... not just to the local park or museum but coast to coast, driving the Alaska/Canadian highway... one of our member was an engineer on the original construction.
We also have members that have driven their Model A from the tip of South America to the Bearing Straight... and another group that did a around the world tour...
My point is these are all people that know every nut and bolt of their cars and not in the least hesitant to set up cross country trips...
I'm what you would call a Life Member of the Model A Ford Club...
For those that don't know... 5 million Model A Fords were made worldwide from late 1927 through 1931
No one would dispute that a car built in 1927 is old?
My little chapter tours year round... not just to the local park or museum but coast to coast, driving the Alaska/Canadian highway... one of our member was an engineer on the original construction.
We also have members that have driven their Model A from the tip of South America to the Bearing Straight... and another group that did a around the world tour...
My point is these are all people that know every nut and bolt of their cars and not in the least hesitant to set up cross country trips...
Saying an old car is not capable is hogwash...
Exactly, some people think if it's not the latest and greatest whatever then it's garbage. And while I'll agree that some things today are way better than they were (computers, for instance), lots of new things are a ****-poor comparison to their older counterparts (appliances come to mind). Sometimes older things are just better. I like to have the best of both worlds, and my possessions reflect that.
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