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This is the one fear that I have always heard people lamenting about and I understand that this was a real potential concern (that and sunroofs) decades ago.
However, in almost 29 years of driving, I have never had a window motor or sunroof motor fail to close for me and I only know of one person who has had an issue with a window motor fail (twice) and in all fairness, she was driving beaters each time.
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen but I think the quality and reliability of modern electric motors is so high that virtually no one ever worries about it when purchasing a vehicle today.
Hell.. I've got one right now that my uncle has.. It's an old vehicle.. '98 Lumina.. The passenger window won't roll up unless you assist it. The majority of them, I have to say, seem to be GM. And, It's usually less the motor than either the rocker switch or the actual window 'guide' (I'm totally drawing a blank on the actual name of it now) that they wind up having to drill out and rivet a new one in.
I certainly have seen enough of them happening to other people where I am nervous about having them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed
Have an example? I'd like to see an owner's manual that says to change a headlight bulb that you have to remove the whole assembly to do so.
I can't say for certain.. I've never seen one.. I've heard this story before.. I think about the new VW Bugs when they were out and perhaps the first generation Toyota Pruis? I've personally never run into one like this. Remembering the VW Bugs my mother had.. It wouldn't surprise me.
A lot of cars do have a fuel pump access panel under the rear seat, but lots of them do not, especially domestic cars, and dropping the tank is required to change the fuel pump.
I've also had to remove the whole front bumper fascia in order to change a marker light (2010 Chevy Malibu I think it was). So yes, some things that are easily serviceable on some cars are a nightmare on others. Some cars you can have the starter out in 15 minutes, but the alternator is a PITA, or vice versa, so it all depends really on what you're working on.
Also, most old cars were made to be easily serviceable in most cases, whereas nowadays that's not even considered because the whole car is considered "disposable" to most people. The majority of people don't fix things anymore, when it breaks they just get a new one.
Cars were always designed to be disposible. Old cars started rusting out after 5 years or so (depending on where you live). Automakers didn't make money on cars that could last forever and never broke.
Cars were always designed to be disposible. Old cars started rusting out after 5 years or so (depending on where you live). Automakers didn't make money on cars that could last forever and never broke.
Hell.. I've got one right now that my uncle has.. It's an old vehicle.. '98 Lumina.. The passenger window won't roll up unless you assist it. The majority of them, I have to say, seem to be GM. And, It's usually less the motor than either the rocker switch or the actual window 'guide' (I'm totally drawing a blank on the actual name of it now) that they wind up having to drill out and rivet a new one in.
I certainly have seen enough of them happening to other people where I am nervous about having them.
I can't say for certain.. I've never seen one.. I've heard this story before.. I think about the new VW Bugs when they were out and perhaps the first generation Toyota Pruis? I've personally never run into one like this. Remembering the VW Bugs my mother had.. It wouldn't surprise me.
The Lumina is not a modern car by any stretch. GM in the 90's sucked at window motors (in anything I owned anyway). I haven't seen a window motor issue on anything built after 2000.
90% of the acess to the engine on a modern car is blocked by a massive air filter housing. Pop off a connector and maybe a saddle clamp and a lot more space opens up.
It's true, that underhood plastic filigree can initially be daunting, but removal is quick, and improvement in underhood room can be substantial. Even so, that doesn't help with a serpentine belt that's 1" away from the inner fender, or in reaching the rear bank of spark plugs on a transverse-mounted V6.
So, I reiterate: transverse-mounted engines in general are annoying - old, or new. It's just that transverse mounting didn't really start to proliferate until the 1980s.
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Originally Posted by Tiffer E38
Diagnosis is diagnosis. If there's no water in the system look for a leak before throwing parts at it, whether the car is a 2010 model or a 1970 model. If you're working on cars yourself you SHOULD have that level of basic knowledge to begin with otherwise it won't matter what year your car is, you're gonna screw it up somehow. Car overheating? Check coolant level. If it's low, start looking for leaks.
I certainly make no claim of competence, let alone expertise. Thought I’ve been working on cars for 30+ years, I never did this at any particular level of depth or assiduousness, though I have done an engine swap (I6 to V8). That said, older cars are more obvious and more forgiving. By older I generally mean pre-1973. Screw-ups can be recognized and reversed more quickly.
It is also more likely, for a newer car, to become dazzled by some electronic this or that, jumping to conclusions and ascribing the symptom to some exotic cause. The real cause may be very quotidian, like lack of coolant. In an older car, such a psychological blunder is less likely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffer E38
Electrical components just need the ability to read a wiring diagram.
While this is literally true, there's stark difference between reading a wiring diagram that fits on a half-page, and one that occupies 50 pages of a factory shop manual - and in particular, if there are changes throughout the model-year, and one can't even fully identify which changes apply to one's vehicle, and which do not.
By way of analogy, I can run a 5K race, and do tolerably alright in competition. But there's no way that I could finish a marathon, even if I walked it. Yet both are just a matter of putting one foot in front of the other, aren't they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed
Have an example? I'd like to see an owner's manual that says to change a headlight bulb that you have to remove the whole assembly to do so.
Not a light bulb, but by way of related example, removing the windshield washer container (to replace the spray-pump) on a 2005 Dodge Neon requires removing the front passenger-side wheel and the plastic fender-liner.
Have an example? I'd like to see an owner's manual that says to change a headlight bulb that you have to remove the whole assembly to do so.
Try changing the headlight in a Pontiac G6 and you'll see that it's physically impossible to change any bulbs with the headlight assembly still in place. You have to remove the 5 clips holding down the front fascia up by the grill and you can just get the headlight assembly out if it's in just the right position. Not nearly as hard as some cars, but it's still more difficult than changing the headlight bulbs in my 02 Saturn, which are easily accessible with everything in place.
The Lumina is not a modern car by any stretch. GM in the 90's sucked at window motors (in anything I owned anyway). I haven't seen a window motor issue on anything built after 2000.
Can attest to the GM power window problems common in late 80's-90's GM vehicles. But I've also replace a few window regulators in cars newer than 2000. Two I can think of would be a 2004 Buick Lasabre and an 07 Jeep Liberty. And don't get me started on early 2000's Jeep's that the wire in the door jam would break causing the windows to intermittently not work. Repaired quite a few of those as well.
Not a light bulb, but by way of related example, removing the windshield washer container (to replace the spray-pump) on a 2005 Dodge Neon requires removing the front passenger-side wheel and the plastic fender-liner.
Try changing the battery in a Dodge Avenger, Journey, Intrepid, Stratus, and probably a couple others I forgot. You have to jack up the left front tire and remove it as the battery is inside the fender well behind the inner fender. Always dreaded when those cars came in the dealership needing a battery. Of all the places they can put a battery (under the hood, in the trunk, under the back seat, under the passenger seat) the worst by far was the ones in the inner fender. Such a PITA, almost like they designed the car and were like "Oh crap, we forgot to put a battery in this car" and just jammed it wherever it would fit.
Or try changing a starter in a 2014 Dodge Durango, by far the worst starter I've ever had to change. No easy way of getting to anything and trying to maneuver the old starter out and the new one in is quite a daunting task. Can't remember how long I spent on it but it took quite a while.
Not a light bulb, but by way of related example, removing the windshield washer container (to replace the spray-pump) on a 2005 Dodge Neon requires removing the front passenger-side wheel and the plastic fender-liner.
I had to do the same, though with drivers side tire, to replace the thermostat on my '05 Colorado.
Freaked me the hell out when found where it was.. The first thought going through your mind when replacing a thermostat isn't normally "Take off the tire".. I was looking at the thing wondering what specialized tool was needed to replace it before I noticed it lined up perfectly with the wheel well.
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