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Old 12-16-2017, 02:01 PM
 
1,221 posts, read 2,095,427 times
Reputation: 1766

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD View Post
Personally, I don't know why anyone would buy a Subaru CrossTrek. Just buy an Impreza 5 door. Same car but lower ground clearance so it gets better fuel economy and has better 0 to 60 mph times because of less wind resistance. It also handles better. In a car that sluggish, why slow it down even more with 3" of extra ground clearance? Spend the difference on good snow tires and winter wheels which you're going to need on either car.

Edited:
I'd add that AWD and ground clearance is mostly a convenience. When I had a GTI and an SUV, I didn't have to shovel out the SUV to go skiing and I could park wherever I wanted.
As a skier and hiker, I can explain:

For hiking - Dirt roads to trailheads with ruts and potholes. Ground clearance makes a huge difference. The Crosstrek will get almost anywhere the typical road-focused consumer SUV will (things built for real off-roading are a different story), which gets you to most of those places. The lower car will get high-sided or lose a bumper.

For skiing - If you want to drive to the mountain in the storm (or leave in the storm), you are again much more likely to get high-sided or lose a bumper with the lower vehicle. The car may still move fine, but if your bumper is acting as a snowplow, it is eventually going to get damaged, especially when you come across a little packed snow left over from a plow or the like.
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,243 posts, read 36,884,312 times
Reputation: 16373
Quote:
Originally Posted by CloudReader View Post
Hi Dawn, AWD will always give an advantage over 2WD given slippery conditions. 2 axles worth of traction is always better than 1, especially with today's traction control systems guiding them.

The CX-3 is quite a bit smaller than the Crosstrek if memory serves me correctly, especially in cargo space. That may be a deciding factor for you depending on your needs. The Mazda is likely more fun to drive, quicker, especially in the summer. Subarus tend to feel a bit lumbering and slow in the summer, but the inverse in the winter. The Crosstrek will also have a more performant AWD system at the cost of fuel economy.
As another poster mentioned above, all depends on the tires. A FWD vehicle with a good set of winter tires offers better traction than an AWD vehicle with lesser tires. I drive a 2012 Corolla with a set of Blizzak tires, and several times I have accelerated from a stop at the traffic light faster than some Subaru automobiles. The only reason for this to happen is if these Subaru automobiles had old all-season tires. But if the Subaru has the proper winter tires, it would accelerate on the same icy road faster than my corolla.
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Old 12-16-2017, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Not far from Fairbanks, AK
20,243 posts, read 36,884,312 times
Reputation: 16373
Quote:
Originally Posted by slyfox2 View Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAoMwbJaMUw

Check out the comparison. Subaru blew it away.
I would never decide which vehicle to buy by watching videos like this one above, nor this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHJ4HBYiJeA

You have to take into consideration that such videos are "stayed" so that the viewer has a negative experience about a vehicle, and a positive experience about the vehicle being advertised. Also, you have to take into consideration that normal driving is not on rollers, nor on ramps, nor off road. Who in his or hers right mind is going to buy a brand new vehicle to drive on rollers to work? Are you going to drive it though mud holes on a dirt road? How about off road crawling on rocks, or just drive it to work on a ramp?

The best responses to the OP's questions will always be from people who experience the same driving conditions, which include road grade and such (driving on mountainous roads, or relatively flat roads). More than likely the OP can gain the most by his (or her) driving experiences (look around the city or town you live and see what your neighbors drive).

In the interior of Alaska where I have been for many years, most of the automobiles are FWD cars (all brands). There are lots of AWD SUVs, and trucks, too. My wife drives a Toyota RAV4 V-6 4WD (she loves this thing), while a drive a 2012 FWD Corolla, and a 2001 Silverado. My youngest son drives a Nissan 4WD truck, and my oldest son a 2016 Toyota truck. The main road problem in the interior of Alaska, is not necessarily snow but ice. We often drive on packed snow or solid ice for days or weeks at a time.

Last edited by RayinAK; 12-16-2017 at 03:06 PM..
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Mount Airy, Maryland
16,086 posts, read 10,238,871 times
Reputation: 27154
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnMTL View Post
Good point. I don't want to get the new car now, in the winter, but at the first sign of spring, I'm off to the dealer.

How do I like the Mazda 6? I've loved it from day 1. And now, 11 years later, I still think it's a great car. I've had ZERO problems with it. Just regular maintenance; no surprises. Of course the car has been quite dramatically changed since mine was "born" but I'm guessing all those changes were for the better. From my own experience with it, I'd highly recommend it. It's bigger than the Civic, but not BIG. It's a good car.
Are you set on new? Any of these you are considering should go 200,000 miles so I would seriously consider a 1-2 year old car. You will save thousands as a new car depreciates immediately the first mile off the lot. A car with 12,000 miles will last virtually the same length of time as a new one.
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Old 12-16-2017, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 32,853,980 times
Reputation: 28898
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
As a skier and hiker, I can explain:

For hiking - Dirt roads to trailheads with ruts and potholes. Ground clearance makes a huge difference. The Crosstrek will get almost anywhere the typical road-focused consumer SUV will (things built for real off-roading are a different story), which gets you to most of those places. The lower car will get high-sided or lose a bumper.

For skiing - If you want to drive to the mountain in the storm (or leave in the storm), you are again much more likely to get high-sided or lose a bumper with the lower vehicle. The car may still move fine, but if your bumper is acting as a snowplow, it is eventually going to get damaged, especially when you come across a little packed snow left over from a plow or the like.
I don't do either of those things. I just want to get out of my driveway and through the ridge of snow at the bottom of it without shoveling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
As another poster mentioned above, all depends on the tires. A FWD vehicle with a good set of winter tires offers better traction than an AWD vehicle with lesser tires. I drive a 2012 Corolla with a set of Blizzak tires, and several times I have accelerated from a stop at the traffic light faster than some Subaru automobiles. The only reason for this to happen is if these Subaru automobiles had old all-season tires. But if the Subaru has the proper winter tires, it would accelerate on the same icy road faster than my corolla.
I always have superior winter tires on my car. That's not even up for debate. I lived in a province where it was, literally, the LAW. Where I live now it's not, but I always, always, always have winters on my car in the winter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RayinAK View Post
I would never decide which vehicle to buy by watching videos like this one above, nor this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHJ4HBYiJeA

You have to take into consideration that such videos are "stayed" so that the viewer has a negative experience about a vehicle, and a positive experience about the vehicle being advertised. Also, you have to take into consideration that normal driving is not on rollers, nor on ramps, nor off road. Who in his or hers right mind is going to buy a brand new vehicle to drive on rollers to work? Are you going to drive it though mud holes on a dirt road? How about off road crawling on rocks, or just drive it to work on a ramp?

The best responses to the OP's questions will always be from people who experience the same driving conditions, which include road grade and such (driving on mountainous roads, or relatively flat roads). More than likely the OP can gain the most by his (or her) driving experiences (look around the city or town you live and see what your neighbors drive).

In the interior of Alaska where I have been for many years, most of the automobiles are FWD cars (all brands). There are lots of AWD SUVs, and trucks, too. My wife drives a Toyota RAV4 V-6 4WD (she loves this thing), while a drive a 2012 FWD Corolla, and a 2001 Silverado. My youngest son drives a Nissan 4WD truck, and my oldest son a 2016 Toyota truck. The main road problem in the interior of Alaska, is not necessarily snow but ice. We often drive on packed snow or solid ice for days or weeks at a time.
Funny that you should say that (bolded part). I looked out my window this morning and I'd say a good 70-75% of my neighbors have SUVs. That can't be a coincidence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveinMtAiry View Post
Are you set on new? Any of these you are considering should go 200,000 miles so I would seriously consider a 1-2 year old car. You will save thousands as a new car depreciates immediately the first mile off the lot. A car with 12,000 miles will last virtually the same length of time as a new one.
I know that I can get a "deal" on a 2017 but, from what I've read, the 2018 went through quite an overhaul. There's a lot of improvement in it and I'd like to take advantage of that. (I won't mention how much I love the new-car smell. That would make me sound even more of a girl -- which I am -- than debating between the orange or the "cool grey khaki" which is NOT khaki, not even green at all; it's powder blue... love!)

I love to save a buck (or thousands of 'em) as much as the next person, but I'm kind of feeling that I want this car to be perfect for me, which would be in the color that I want, in the model that I want, and in the newest iteration of it.

ETA: I just looked around -- on dealer sites and private -- at used ones. There are only a handful for sale, and they're all 4+ years old or have too much mileage for me to consider. It looks like these are the types of cars that people keep until they (the person or the car) dies. Two more things that I learned about Subaru: (1) I can't cross the border to the U.S. and buy it there. Subaru Canada disallows that. I've never heard any car company having that "rule." Interesting. (2) Subaru dealers -- at least here -- don't really negotiate. This is the price. End of story. Some will throw in crap like floor mats if you smile pretty, but not (much) more than that. They're known to not give up on price.

Last edited by DawnMTL; 12-16-2017 at 06:23 PM..
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
13,253 posts, read 22,650,364 times
Reputation: 16387
Subarus are slow to depreciate because demand exceeds supply- factory space limits their production runs, and the parent company doesn't want to spend mass quantities of yen to build a new factory until they're sure the sales gains of the past ten years are not just a fad. The new Legacy we bought in 2016 was within $100 of the used 2015 Legacy the dealer had on the same lot and the new one was a higher trim level- dealership was willing to give us invoice price on the new Legacy (Indiana apparently plays vehicle allocation cage match with their dealers, and the place we bought from wanted to keep their supply of easy to sell Outbacks coming in on every truck) but would not budge on the used one at all.

The last few years, Subarus will typically spend weeks less on a dealer lot than other manufacturer's models. If you don't want to pay close to MSRP, the next potential buyer to come along probably will.
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Old 12-16-2017, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 32,853,980 times
Reputation: 28898
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
Subarus are slow to depreciate because demand exceeds supply- factory space limits their production runs, and the parent company doesn't want to spend mass quantities of yen to build a new factory until they're sure the sales gains of the past ten years are not just a fad. The new Legacy we bought in 2016 was within $100 of the used 2015 Legacy the dealer had on the same lot and the new one was a higher trim level- dealership was willing to give us invoice price on the new Legacy (Indiana apparently plays vehicle allocation cage match with their dealers, and the place we bought from wanted to keep their supply of easy to sell Outbacks coming in on every truck) but would not budge on the used one at all.

The last few years, Subarus will typically spend weeks less on a dealer lot than other manufacturer's models. If you don't want to pay close to MSRP, the next potential buyer to come along probably will.
That makes sense in reference to what I'm seeing.

So let me ask you this: If I want a specific make (Crosstrek) and model (Touring) and I want it in automatic and in a specific color, of course it's likely that they will not have exactly THAT on the lot. It's been a very long time since I've bought a new car...

1. I can order exactly what I want, right?
2. Assuming that I can order it, and maybe the wait time is longer or shorter in Canada, about how long does it typically take until I can get it? I want the car in April so, obviously, I don't want to "do the deal" in March if the car's going to take 3 months to get here.

Any ideas on that?
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
13,253 posts, read 22,650,364 times
Reputation: 16387
You can do a Subaru special order but I'm not sure how long it would take to get delivery.
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Old 12-16-2017, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
17,330 posts, read 32,853,980 times
Reputation: 28898
I guess I'll have to call them. I'll disguise my voice so they don't know me the one who's definitely in buy mode.
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Old 12-17-2017, 07:04 AM
 
24,503 posts, read 17,956,220 times
Reputation: 40189
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerm277 View Post
As a skier and hiker, I can explain:

For hiking - Dirt roads to trailheads with ruts and potholes. Ground clearance makes a huge difference. The Crosstrek will get almost anywhere the typical road-focused consumer SUV will (things built for real off-roading are a different story), which gets you to most of those places. The lower car will get high-sided or lose a bumper.

For skiing - If you want to drive to the mountain in the storm (or leave in the storm), you are again much more likely to get high-sided or lose a bumper with the lower vehicle. The car may still move fine, but if your bumper is acting as a snowplow, it is eventually going to get damaged, especially when you come across a little packed snow left over from a plow or the like.
I have no idea where you live but in my universe, there are these things called snow plows. I winter at a ski resort. I get 200"+ in my driveway most years. With 6" of ground clearance, a basic Haldex AWD system, a button to turn off traction control, and Nokians, I can bull any car in and out of a ski resort parking lot with two feet of unplowed slop in it. A 5 door Impreza would be fine. Other than that one specific use case, I'm just fine in a FWD car with that ground clearance, a button to turn off traction control, and Nokians.

I have hundreds of thousands of miles in VW GTIs. I never lost a bumper. I also have hundreds of thousands of miles in body-on-frame SUVs that are far more capable than a Crosstrek. You're only talking 3" of extra ground clearance in a Crosstrek. A Crosstrek doesn't have a skid plate. You're not going to take it too far beyond a vanilla graded dirt road because you're going to leave 5 quarts of full synthetic on the ground when you poke a hole in the oil pan and walk back to civilization. For example, there is no way you'd take a Crosstrek over the Roxbury Gap to Sugarbush/Mad River during mud month. You'd drive the extra 45 minutes on asphalt. I've owned lots of body-on-frame SUVs where that's no problem.
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