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Does anyone else find the idea of new pickup trucks costing around fifty grand to be ridiculous?
From what I have heard the reliability of these trucks isn't something to brag on either.
The last new truck I bought was a stripped-down 2000 F250 PSD 4x4, and its sticker price was right at $34K. This was a 6-spd manual with rubber floor mats. That was a lot of money compared to my first new truck, a similarly equipped '68 Chevy 1/2-ton 2WD for $2200. I could also have bought a nice house in '68 for $20K. Inflation! My dad used to tell me how much things cost when he was a kid, and I had to wonder why didn't he just stockpile a bunch of stuff then!
I honestly couldn't afford a new truck now, at least not the kind I'd want. My son, however, drives a new F150. He leases them and just traded in his 2015 Platinum a little early to get his new Limited. This is his third F150 after having a couple Cadillac Escalades. His last Escalade gave him some kind of problem towing his golf cart (all he ever tows), so that's what prompted the first F150.
The Escalade was nearly new, less than a year old, so I was surprised to learn he'd traded it for a pickup. He said it was about 20K cheaper, got better mileage, towed better and the ride and handling was very close to that of the Escalade. He loves his new Limited. I rode in it last month on an 800-mile road trip, and it was indeed a nice ride. It's fancier than any car I've owned, and I've usually bought pretty high-end cars.
He also bought his daughter an F150 last spring to tow her horse to college (majoring in horsemanship or some such ****). It was used, I think a 2014. She's happy with it. I failed in convincing him to buy her an F250 to haul the horse. Kids!
I can't remember the last time I had a rear seat passenger in my car. The huge, vast majority of vehicles (including giant crew cab pickup trucks) I see every day (and I live in a densely populated area) are occupied only by the driver. As such, rear seat capacity is virtually meaningless as a measure of vehicle's worthiness. In fact, a minivan offers better seating without the plethora of negatives one must tolerate with a pickup. You know - crappy fuel economy, hard to park, Conestoga wagon chassis dynamics, inferior braking/handling/performance at any given price point, etc. I could go on, but a truck, when not being used for its intended purpose, is indefensible from a purely logical standpoint.
Sure, some people actually use their trucks as intended. Speaking as someone who uses my truck as intended, I'm dismayed that so many trucks these days have useless beds (less than 6ft is a joke) and ridiculously high lift-over. You can buy a really decent car or minivan for $50K. Use the remaining $20K to buy a beater truck. Problem solved, and it will save the rest of us having to maneuver around these bloated whales as the ponderously plod along roadways or take 20 minutes to squeeze into a parking spot.
Define crappy fuel economy...20 and up is good for a modern truck.
Hard to park? If you're a non driver and the biggest thing you've ever parked is a Geo metro...
Conestoga wagon chassis? I'll take that over a unibody designed to cave in around you.
Inferior braking handling and performance?
You somewhere in florida I'll take you for a ride. Have to find a mountain road in Georgia somewhere take my half ton around a few 30mph rated corners at 70+ and see how poorly it handles. Can do a few go on 3 rolls on Mustangs and Camaros too.
Then again it's not the vehicle it's the driver. Grew up racing stock cars on dirt ovals and racing buddies on winding back roads in pickups. Spent a bit of time at Limerock too. Also drove Cadillacs. Real Cadillacs. Devilles/Fleetwoods and had a limo too. Was an 86 Fleetwood funeral car. That was easy to parallel park too.
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Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall
Exactly right. Different vehicles for different purposes. Thanks for proving my point. I wouldn't use a sledge hammer to drive finishing nails. Nor would I use a pickup truck as daily transportation. That was the point of my post. Please explain why so many pickup trucks are used for daily transportation by one occupant when that isn't their intended purpose.
Also, a little math for you. The a lot fewer distinct truck models than there are car models in a given class. Cars and SUVs still outsell trucks by a large margin, they're just spread among a bunch of different models. Furthermore, sales numbers have nothing to do with the worthiness of vehicle. People buy stuff - sometimes demonstrably inferior stuff - for a lot of different reasons. People are emotional and cars/trucks tend to be emotional decisions. And that's OK, I just don't understand why some folks try to defend a completely irrational decision as logical. I make irrational decisions all of the time. I don't need a 556hp car, but its want I wanted. I happily admit that it's not practical for most folks. I don't understand why pickup owners just can't say "I know this makes no sense, but I like it". Instead, there's a bunch yapping about rear seat room that is rarely used, a bed that never sees cargo, and a towing capacity far beyond what they'll ever need. It would be one thing if they were few negatives associated with all of these unused features, but trucks, more than any other vehicle class, are the poster child for negative characteristics. At least my 556hp car is still pretty good as a car (4 doors and usable rear seat).
Cars outsell trucks? That's why the number one selling vehicle in America is the F150... Spare the fleet sales and government contract sales don't count. Obviously fleets and municipalities need them as cars aren't up to the task for whatever their needs are... Why would people want a pickup truck...
Hmm perhaps they're the last of a full frame, with rear wheel drive for 1.
2. Utilitarian purposes.
3. Versatile.
4. Lower cost of ownership. Doubt me? What I pay for insurance on 2 trucks my brother in law pays and then some for a V6 dodge charger.
Just about anything I would ever need part wise will be readily available anywhere and if discontinued, since pickups are so popular, I'll be able to source whatever needed at a junk yard as its an abundant/popular vehicle.
Nothing emotional about it. Try logical.
Your assumption, That's mere projection. If I am emotional so too must be those who buy trucks. And then there's the whole... compensation theory...
556? Why not 600+? If I tune my duramax that'll be eclipsing 550 easy with 1000+ft lbs of torque. That would be embarrassing to have a big bloated truck run by you like your standing still and have the torque to overcome the lack of aerodynamics to keep it going well above 100mph...
I have crew cabs. Not extend cab dakota/Ranger that can seat a child in the back.
I doubt your ride has as much rear leg room as the back seat of a new crew cab Silverado or ford...
Bet my insurance is less than yours
Just what exactly are negative features of trucks again....
Say just how useful will that 556hp be when a hot water heater takes a crap, you need some lumber, need to move or haul something more than a bag full of golf clubs... I know! Might get you to enterprise quick to rent a truck last minute
In your feeble narrow minded view pickups are pointless.
High lift over? What are you? Short? Angry at the world? They make steps that fold down for the vertically challenged.
50k for a minivan and 20k for a used truck?
That's plates/registrations for 2 vehicles cheif.
That's 2 vehicles to take up space in a garage/driveway.
That's 2 vehicles if you're in a tax happy state like MA or CT you pay excise tax on yearly.
That's 2 vehicles you need to inspect.
That's 2 vehicles you need to insure.
Last I checked you can't plow snow with a minivan...
Sounds to me like you have more money than brains.
Think of pickups like condoms. Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. For that one time when you least expect you'd need it, it will be worth its weight in gold.
Aww shucks. Did I just destroy your egotistical rant of I'm short, angry at the world, can barely drive and it's so difficult to maneuver around these trucks I'm going to buy a car with 556hp to feel better about myself then take to the interwebs to bash everyone I don't agree with or understand.
There there Lil fella. It's okay...
Well, I have a 707hp Hellcat, and it's what I wanted, I a agree completely with you on that point. I had four trucks before going back to cars in 2011 when I bought a Mustang GT, then a 2012 Chrysler 300SRT8, and now a 2015 Challenger Hellcat. My kids got grown and I no longer needed the extra space, so I went back to my first love of muscle cars. So I guess driving big truck and big horse power cars don't have to be practical, people should just drive what they want and can afford, and don't worry about what people think since they are not paying for it. Now do you want to race your cts-v lol.
I wanted a hell cat so bad I almost signed the dotted line until I got a quote for the insurance. About damn near keeled over. HNNNGGGGGG say what? Ok no thanks.
Best damn car out there. Seriously. Comfortable. Can see out of them unlike that craptastic fugly camaro. Not sitting on the floor like a Camaro or mustang.
Looks great. Sounds amazing without cats and mufflers. I love those cars.
Got a nice deal for one. Just couldn't justify the insurance...
All black, black wheels paint leather. I'd have done blacked out windows straight pipes, and red angel eyes for head lights to make it look as evil as it sounds.
Only other color I'd go for is sublime green.
I always love these people mentioning how hard to park these things are and how slow they are as well. I have a ram and a fiesta and I much prefer driving my ram. Much better visibility and even being considerably longer and wider is easier to park. modern sedans have poor rearward visibility.
As far as short beds and rear seats that never get used. So what! Rear doors (and a seat) lets me put anything in there I would get at the grocery store or other items I don't want to get wet, like luggage when going to the airport. Dirty items that need to be hidden and tools and cleaning supplies can go into my tool boxes. Coolers, fish, bambi, decoys, ladders, nets, buckets, etc can get tossed in the bed. Yep, it's my everyday driver. I hate driving the little fiesta. 1000 miles to S. FL? I take the truck! Every time. Local cruises? the truck.
What is it with these people complaining that others buy these things and they are the only ones in them. Well you might as well look at every mini van with just a driver. Oh, the horror of a single person driving such a vehi cle designed for passengers. Oh, never mind. Mini vans get a pass but god help the poor sole who is alone in an SUV!!! Jees people, let others drive what they want.
BTW, a truck, at 35 grand, is much more of a vehicle and makes a lot more sense then a car at 35 grand. Or how about a "luxury" truck at 60/70 grand. Again, 10 times the vehicle as a mercedes or other luxury car for the same or more.
I can't remember the last time I had a rear seat passenger in my car. The huge, vast majority of vehicles (including giant crew cab pickup trucks) I see every day (and I live in a densely populated area) are occupied only by the driver. As such, rear seat capacity is virtually meaningless as a measure of vehicle's worthiness.
So you see someone driving the truck to work (often times entire families don't work together and drive separate) and make the assumption that the rear seat isn't used? Good logic.
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Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall
In fact, a minivan offers better seating without the plethora of negatives one must tolerate with a pickup. You know - crappy fuel economy, hard to park, Conestoga wagon chassis dynamics, inferior braking/handling/performance at any given price point, etc. I could go on, but a truck, when not being used for its intended purpose, is indefensible from a purely logical standpoint.
What negatives? My 2500 Ram crew cab 4wd diesel truck gets 18.5 mpg in the city. That's not too shabby for a 9,800 lb truck. I can also park it anywhere that you can. You just have to be a decent driver. You're not going to whip into a parking spot on two wheels, but you can park it in one attempt if you actually know how to drive it. There is also nothing inferior about the handling of the truck nor the performance. Not only will mine keep up with your minivan, compact car, etc.... it will do so climbing a steep grade in 6th gear at 70 mph at 1,500 rpms while still accelerating.
You seem to want trucks to handle like a sports car but be able to carry a heavy load. There has to be some give and take because it is a completely different animal. But most modern trucks are very well rounded.
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Originally Posted by YourWakeUpCall
Sure, some people actually use their trucks as intended. Speaking as someone who uses my truck as intended, I'm dismayed that so many trucks these days have useless beds (less than 6ft is a joke) and ridiculously high lift-over. You can buy a really decent car or minivan for $50K. Use the remaining $20K to buy a beater truck. Problem solved, and it will save the rest of us having to maneuver around these bloated whales as the ponderously plod along roadways or take 20 minutes to squeeze into a parking spot.
If you need to haul a pallet of sod home, or a water heater, or lumber for a remodel project how do you argue that a small bed is a joke? The bed is fully functional and works as intended. Those are all things you aren't going to easily squeeze into a minivan on the weekend while retaining your rear seats for your kids.
Two vehicles doesn't always make sense. There was a time where I had 4 vehicles in my driveway for my wife and I. I had a Mustang GT to daily drive, an F150 in case I needed a truck, an SUV for our longer trips or when we had the kids, and a Camry for the wife to drive to work every day. It didn't make any sense. We chose the two vehicles that met our needs 99% of the time, and sold the other two. That left me with a truck and an SUV.
I've said it before and apparently those who hate trucks can't wrap their head around it.
Two vehicles costs more money... period. There is twice the maintenance, twice the insurance, twice the fuel, twice the labor to keep them up, twice the registration, etc... If someone wants one vehicle to handle everything their life throws at them and that one vehicle happens to be a truck that's a smart move on their part instead of trying to keep up multiple vehicles.
Opportunity to rant some more...I'm 6' tall and a little annoyed that I have to climb up into the damn thing. And it appears to be completely gratuitous, because what I see when I crawl under the truck is loads of empty space. I could smuggle a sizeable Mexican family under there, no joke! And it wasn't done for ground clearance either, because the driveshaft, exhaust, and fuel tank hang at the same level as the bottom of the frame rails. All the space is around and above them.
I get to climb up into that big tall upright seating position, which I need to see over the gratuitously huge hood, and even then I can't see the road for half a block in front of me. It's all for style... King of the Road, baby!
BTW, one example of a truck that is intelligently designed for the way 90% of the people use them is the Honda pickup. I imagine most truck drivers wouldn't be caught dead in one though.
It WAS done for ground clearance. The angle of ascent and descent are increased when the body is raised up higher. It also puts the bed at a level that makes loading and unloading things like lumber easier on the back than stooping down to lift heavy objects. Also, the frame rails are much higher up than on other vehicles so by default it has much more ground clearance. Not to mention bigger wheels, which increase axle to ground clearance as well.
If you need to see the tip of your hood to drive a truck, you really don't need to drive a truck. Many trucks come with parking sensors in the bumpers to help folks who can't judge distance but even that is kind of silly. If you cannot learn to operate the truck, don't drive one.
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Originally Posted by kapie9969
Interesting replies. I guess the view about how insane the prices are, has to do with your income level. I just look at wages versus the cost of living and I how much debt people carry to drive a truck. I own an older truck that I paid cash for. I drive it when it is needed.Towing and 4wd for going off-road.(spare vehicle)Otherwise, i drive a car that is much better on gas. I find so many people driving trucks that are clean and have no hitch on the back.Basically used as cars.To be funny and impractical. It still is a somewhat free country, so more power to you with whatever you choose to drive.
The MSRP of a 1986 Toyota pickup in 1986 was $5,998. In today's money that is $13,248.94. Trucks back then were extremely bare boned. My grandfather's 1984 Toyota truck wasn't even optioned with air conditioning. It had a seat, shifter, a horrible radio, and that was about it. A base model 2 door 2014 Tacoma (last year of regular cab) stickered at $14,500 and had a few more standard options than a 1986 model. So it isn't really the cost that increased, but inflation that makes people think that they have. A $50k truck today would have cost $22k in 1986.
Another example. The MSRP of a 1986 F150, single cab, XL was $8,373. That's manual crank windows, no tape deck, vinyl seats, rubber floor, etc... A base model truck. That is $18.5k in today's money. The MSRP of a 2017 regular cab, short box, F150 XL is $27k. This one comes with cloth seats, a nice stereo, trailer tow package, Bluetooth, etc... So much better optioned, even in a base model truck.
The options and technology that were available in older days are nowhere near what we have today, so that does drive the price of a truck up.
I wanted a hell cat so bad I almost signed the dotted line until I got a quote for the insurance. About damn near keeled over. HNNNGGGGGG say what? Ok no thanks.
Best damn car out there. Seriously. Comfortable. Can see out of them unlike that craptastic fugly camaro. Not sitting on the floor like a Camaro or mustang.
Looks great. Sounds amazing without cats and mufflers. I love those cars.
Got a nice deal for one. Just couldn't justify the insurance...
All black, black wheels paint leather. I'd have done blacked out windows straight pipes, and red angel eyes for head lights to make it look as evil as it sounds.
Only other color I'd go for is sublime green.
Thanks and I love driving this beast, my insurance went almost 100 bucks with the Hellcat.
I've said it before and apparently those who hate trucks can't wrap their head around it.
Two vehicles costs more money... period. There is twice the maintenance, twice the insurance, twice the fuel, twice the labor to keep them up, twice the registration, etc... If someone wants one vehicle to handle everything their life throws at them and that one vehicle happens to be a truck that's a smart move on their part instead of trying to keep up multiple vehicles.
Nonsense.
New Honda Accord: $25K, .9% for 60 months = $426 per month = $5,112 per year (Current Honda financing offer)
Fuel costs (assuming 15K miles per year, 30mpg, $2.10 per gallon): $1050.
Insurance: $720
Oil Changes: 3 at $70: $210
Total 1st year costs: $7092
New F150 Lariat 4X4 Crew Cab: $57K (MSRP $65K): 4.9% for 60 months (Ford financing offer): $1073 per month, $12876 per year.
Fuel Costs: (Assuming 15K per year, 17mpg, $2.10 per gallon): $1852
Insurance: $720
Oil Changes: 3 at $70: $210
Total 1st year costs: $15,658
So, for the first year of ownership, the difference between driving an Accord and an F150 Platinum is $8,556. More than enough to cover a beater truck, including fuel, maintenance, and insurance. It gets worse in year two, since the beater truck is paid for. Or just rent/borrow a truck when you really need it.
Oh, and it's not twice the maintenance, etc. You're only driving one vehicle at a time so most of the bigger costs (fuel) aren't double. I've know people who actually paid less to insure 2 vehicles than it one due to multi-car discounts, etc.
But, you have inadvertently proved my point - coming up with easily discredited "logic" to defend the use of a utility vehicle as a daily driver. It's OK to say you love your truck because of the image it projects. Just do it.
I like fully loaded trucks. There's more than sticker shock that meets the eye...
Something to think about... what is cheaper in the long run?
A 600/700 dollar per month payment and insurance policy for 1 vehicle or say 600/700 for 1 daily driver and used stripped down work/tow pig and 2 insurance policies? Plus less space in the garage/driveway?
To me fully loaded trucks are where it's at. You get the comfort of a Cadillac, the capability of a truck, and not have to rely on an old beater to do chores/tasks.
Why pay to insure 2 vehicles, say a Cadillac/Lincoln/Lexus/Audi/normal car, when you can have 1 vehicle that does it all?
Want to go camping and have a travel trailer? Why sacrifice comfort with a stripped down dedicated tow pig? For that 50/60k you can have a fully loaded rig, rear DVD player with wireless head phones to keep the kids preoccupied (if you have them) they spill juice milk whatever it wipes off good as new opposed to a stained cloth bench.
Real estate investor? Handy? Can make trips to get supplies, lumber, equipment etc. Give it a wash and go pick a client up to show them the house they enter a comfortable cab vs a work pig with rubber floors and vinyl/cloth bench.
Mobile mechanic? Go to the pick and pull, ratchet strap down a trans/rear end/engine in the bed sore back? Adjust the lumbar and turn on the heated seat.
Business executive/adrenaline junkie? Load a quad in the bed, dirt bikes in the bed. Still have the Cadillac cab with easy to clean leather
Going skiing/snowboarding with the wifey? Hit the remote start before leaving the lodge for 10 minutes twice, come into a warm cab, heated seats on, dump the skis/snowboards in the bed. No need for those goofy roof racks. You have 4 wheel drive if you have to use it... Why go for a SUV or AWD car?
Deer season? Elk season? Same thing. Freeze all morning/day long in a stand/blind come back to a comfortable cab. With MYLINK in both trucks, I downloaded the app on my phone. As long as I have cell service I can start either truck and adjust the HVAC settings. So there's that.
Summer time taking the boat out? Why get into a stifling hot cab? Obviously wifey is going to wear Daisy dukes... hit the key fob go fetch the truck, load the boat on the trailer, she's not going to complain about burnt butt/legs/sticking to leather when the A/C seats are running...
Plus there's the fact you get touch screen navigation. No having to reference a map, download directions before a trip, run GPS to eat your data up on a phone...
You have a premium Audio System (Bose) you're not stuck with scratchy speakers and static AM/FM only... You dont need to guess when hooking up a trailer or need a hand to get you hooked up just use the rear view camera... you get your money's worth between comfort and creature features.
Or (insert fun seasonal activity here)
My case used to be boating, jetskis, snowmobiles, snowboarding, quads/dirtbikes, racing stock cars. Get dirty, leather cleans right up. I'll never own cloth seat anything. Or vinyl seat anything. Unless it's a hotrod with say custom tweed interior etc...
However the EPAS steering is a mistake. Have to buy a 3/4 ton to plow or pay the extra to have the plow prep package to swap the EPAS for a conventional power steering system. And it's another electronic component to get destroyed by water/mud/road salt intrusion.
Fully loaded trucks do all things well. You don't have to sacrifice comfort to have a truck. I believe the industry saw a market change from strictly utilitarian purposes to going to well rounded in all areas. Gas mileage is good. If you're an Econobox owner used to 30-40mpg, to you mid to high 20s seems bad.
Obviously you've never had a carbed small block/big block V8 with 3:73s-4:88s out back, with a granny gear 4 speed. Then you're justified in saying bad fuel mileage
Would I take either of my trucks mudding or rock crawling up and down mountains cross 3 foot deep streams? HELL NO. Too many electronics to get destroyed. 70s/80s K10/K20 good ol fashioned manual locking front hubs, stout carbed small block 4bbl headers and glass packs? Oh in a heart beat!
Stock my 14 half ton was getting hand calculated 26mpg consistently and that was driving through mountains... I wouldn't scoff and declare that's bad.
Maybe compared to something the size of a clown car with an engine I can carry under my arm that yields 30+ maybe... a 5600lb crew cab fully loaded pickup? That's far from bad.
Hell my 16 Duramax with a lift on 375 55 22s gets 23-25 empty with all the factory emission crap on it which may go this tax return... both are fully loaded with every option you can get from the factory.
As far as ford goes. Sorry ford fanboys. You're only paying for that aluminum body. That XLT crew cab chit box with a sticker of 45k+ and cloth... it isn't worth it.
35k for a Cloth interior crew cab power windows and locks sure. 45? No. No value there.
You dont really need a 3/4 ton to plow snow, I know plenty of guys that used to do it with half ton trucks and never had any problems. Of course truck manufacturers and dealers are going to say otherwise though, they are always trying to up-sell after all.
It WAS done for ground clearance. The angle of ascent and descent are increased when the body is raised up higher.
This is simple stuff. The ground clearance is *not* improved at all. The fuel tank, exhaust, and driveshaft could have been tucked up higher, but they aren't. Not on any of the trucks. The only reason the cab and hood are raised up is for style.
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It also puts the bed at a level that makes loading and unloading things like lumber easier on the back than stooping down to lift heavy objects.
I've never once wished for a higher bed for any reason. Lower is much more convenient. I mean the beds on the littlest 2wd pickups of yore were still 2ft off the ground. Is that really too low for you? If you want your lumber up high then load it on a rack.
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If you need to see the tip of your hood to drive a truck, you really don't need to drive a truck. Many trucks come with parking sensors in the bumpers to help folks who can't judge distance but even that is kind of silly. If you cannot learn to operate the truck, don't drive one.
Just more apologetic nonsense which boils down to "if you don't wish to embrace all the stupid design choices that are chasing style and marketing, then you don't deserve to belong to our club of manly man big truck drivers."
If pickup trucks were designed for practicality, they'd look more like this:
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and the ride and handling was very close to that of the Escalade. He loves his new Limited. I rode in it last month on an 800-mile road trip, and it was indeed a nice ride. It's fancier than any car I've owned, and I've usually bought pretty high-end cars.
Cars outsell trucks? That's why the number one selling vehicle in America is the F150... 
Spare the fleet sales and government contract sales don't count. Obviously fleets and municipalities need them as cars aren't up to the task for whatever their needs are... 
I'm short, angry at the world, can barely drive and it's so difficult to maneuver around these trucks I'm going to buy a car with 556hp to feel better about myself then take to the interwebs to bash everyone I don't agree with or understand. 
