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The reason so many are changing from sedans, etc., to pickups and midsize and up SUVs, as the typical regular car is no longer the vehicle for long trips, etc. They have gotten so small they are uncomfortable to anyone but small people. I am 6'2" tall with a long body and 200 pounds, and I cannot sit in one and drive it comfortably. The majority of the cars are now too small for all but the small people, is how the tall people feel.
Go to any parking lot in our area (South East Montana), and except for out of state tourists, you will find that over 75% of the vehicles are 4 door pickups, and mid size and larger SUVs. No electric cars. And this is the less snow area of Montana.
The 4 door pickup, and larger SUV, are now the vehicles of choice among the people that can afford a new car today. They are the vehicle of choice for one reason, they are large and comfortable, and can go anywhere, anytime. And you can get all the luxuries and special treatments you can get in a Luxury Car. If you fully deck out a pickup, you are going to spend North of $50,000. But the good thing is, they will last longer than the average car today.
I can think of a few reasons. Fuel waste, reduces visibility for everyone else, takes up too much space, is a danger to other vehicles in a collision.
It *is* patently silly how big vehicles have become, which nominally carry a payload of 1 person. We *could* build reasonably comfortable vehicles for that purpose that weigh 500 lbs and get >200 mpge.
If I am willing to fill up my tank you should have no problem. My decision, not yours. Besides, you should see what we burn in diesel for a days offshore fishing.
As far as visibility? How about mini vans with smoked out, or no, windows, and crossovers which also have the windows tinted. When I'm in my little econo box sardine can I have trouble seeing around them, but they get a pass I guess.
How does it take up too much space? I can park my quad cab/short bed in any parking space I have come across and not hinder whoever is, or will, park next to me. And since our roads can safely accommodate 18 wheeler s and buses, how can anybody say my personal pick up takes up too much space. It is much smaller then those vehicles.
And how big they have become? Are you defining big as height, as newer trucks are a bit higher then the older ones, but they are also offering larger payloads and tires/rims. But there is the old 70's ford high boy which was every bit as tall as the newer super duty's. And big, well the dimensions of my old 70's era ford truck and 80's era as well are pretty much the same as my newer Dodge. They are, and have been pretty standardized to fit a 4x8 sheet of something between the wheelwells. kind of dictates the overall dimensions now wouldn't it? And about that 200 mpg, lightweight, one passenger car? Go for it. I sure as hell wouldn't get in one but I'm not against someone buying one if that's what they want. Likewise, nobody should be against me buying and driving what I like.
Some very good points made in the two posts above.
Comfort has absolutely suffered with the drive to shrink cars. Part of the method to "increase fuel efficiency" has been to improve aerodynamics by shrinking the footprint of the car and reduce drag. Second to that was to shrink the weight of the vehicle so that smaller engines can be used to move the load.
The obvious downside to this is that you lose comfort and capacity when you shrink the car. Further than that, you lose height and with that visibility. The answer isn't to force every other vehicle to shrink to re-gain visibility. But if we all drive cautiously visibility is a non-issue. There is plenty of reaction time available. The roads were built for larger vehicles. Trying to say they take too much space is silly.
New trucks actually do pretty well in terms of fuel economy if you compare them to vehicles of old. Braking time has also been improved tremendously if again comparing to the trucks of old. They're extremely comfortable, and retain the ability to haul the entire family on vacation, to the grocery store, to the home center, or any combination of all of those things at the same time; Something only capable of being done easily in a full sized truck with a bed. A truck is a truck. It isn't designed to be a sports car. It is designed to fill a multitude of needs by a family and in today's times, it replaces the need to have multiple vehicles to perform specific tasks. One vehicle can do it all.
I'm all for someone developing a car that can get 200 mpg+ and weigh 500 lbs if they so choose. I would absolutely challenge them to explain how they intend to keep the occupants safe on the road. To reduce that much weight would either require use of exotic materials (making the car unaffordable for the average person, much more so than a large truck), or the omission of some safety equipment to cut weight.
I would also ask them how they intended to be able to haul things to and from places in a car that would have to be smaller than the footprint of the SMART car or a Fiat 500. Even a simple trip to the grocery store could require multiple trips.
If I am willing to fill up my tank you should have no problem. My decision, not yours.
Believe it or not, some people feel that gratuitously increasing pollution and CO2 are environmentally irresponsible. Even if you don't care about that, higher consumption of resources that we import has a negative effect on the domestic economy.
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As far as visibility? How about mini vans with smoked out, or no, windows, and crossovers which also have the windows tinted. When I'm in my little econo box sardine can I have trouble seeing around them, but they get a pass I guess.
Who said they get a pass? If you have a tall vehicle your visibility improves only until everyone else follows suit. Then I guess it's time to go even higher...
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How does it take up too much space?
If you park places that accommodate large vehicles, then that is good for you. But in some areas space is at a high premium. Look at it this way, if people drove small cars, they could put a lot more of them in a lot, or make the lots smaller.
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They are, and have been pretty standardized to fit a 4x8 sheet of something between the wheelwells. kind of dictates the overall dimensions now wouldn't it? And about that 200 mpg, lightweight, one passenger car? Go for it. I sure as hell wouldn't get in one but I'm not against someone buying one if that's what they want. Likewise, nobody should be against me buying and driving what I like.
The 500 lb vehicle would be a good size for hauling a person around, and they'd take up a lot less space on the road and in the parking lot. They would be safe as well if the other vehicles on the road were the same size. Oversized vehicles are a danger to others.
I didn't say anything at all about new trucks being too big as trucks... except for the gratuitous height, which is done for style rather than function.
They are incredibly oversized however for 90% of what they are used for, which is hauling one person around. If you occasionally need to haul stuff, then getting a trailer to pull behind your car (even a little economy car) will have a lot more utility and a higher payload than a 1/2 ton truck.
I own a double cab long bed Tundra BTW, which I bought because I needed a large truck. I also have a '86 truck. I would have preferred a bit larger version of that, but nothing similar exists. The Tundra is literally 2x the weight and 3x the horsepower, yet has a smaller payload. Does that seem crazy? The only utility the new trucks are made for is pulling trailers. But I'm sure the Tundra will be fine hauling more than it's designed for once I beef up the suspension. Hopefully the axle bearings will survive.
My biggest annoyance is the height. If it's going to be tall, I want good ground clearance at least! To get good ground clearance I need bigger tires and a lift, which makes the cab and bed silly-high. It's done for style. Sitting up high makes people feel "bigger" I guess. Bigger is better...
Not that long ago trucks were designed for work, with fancy options added for the luxury models. Now they are fancy metro-sexual big macho cowboy wannabe commuting rigs, with a few stripped down models offered for the few who actually want trucks.
What I drive, and everybody else drives is a drop in the bucket as far as consumption. In other words, my 1/2 ton has no affect on resourses. If that bothers you so much, go after China and other third world country's such as those south of us.
Again, why does it matter that 90 % of the time it is just me in my truck? Why? My choice. And as far as payload, give me a break, a modern 1/2 ton can carry a whole lot more then any 80's toyota. And if being able to carry more weight was important for me I would have bought a 3/4 ton but as it is, in the 10 years I've had my truck, I have never overloaded it. It suits me just fine, though my next truck will be a 3/4 ton. That is because I have a boat now and the larger motor in a 3/4 ton, gas or diesel, will have less of an effect on MPG's when towing then my little 4.7. And it will get better MPG's all around then my truck does now!
And about ground clearance, yes there was plenty before I lifted it. I only lifted it to allow for more sidewall on wider tires so I can air down and "float" over the soft sand beaches I drive on. When stock the truck had plenty of ground clearance. And that includes driveshaft, frame, pumpkins, and everything. They have to be made that way as so many models share the same body but have different frame configurations as the ratings go up. You want to talk about no ground clearance and easily able to get stuck? Then attack the jeep lineup which seems to worry more about the distance between the diff and ground. Sure I'll get attacked for that but I have had a couple of the old, original, fullsized Cherokees and they were like getting in a station wagon they were so low. Ad they're replacement wasn't any better, just looked that way because they were smaller.
And as far as designed for work? Why can't one be comfortable while working. Why can't one be toasty sitting on his heated seats in a perfectly air tight climate controlled vehicle while plowing snow this weekend. Why can't one have all the bells and whistles to make a 500 mile run towing something comfortable. Is there some rule saying one must be uncomfortable when working? If you belicve that and work in an office, I hope they supply you with a folding metal chair because afterall, your working. No need to be comfortable!
And no, a 500lb vehicle is not a good choice for many of us. If that's what you think then move to some communist country with no choices. Where everybody drives the same vehicle!
Tall trucks flip over. The trend towards taller family vehicles puts kids in danger.
Completely untrue. You'll need to back this up with statistical data instead of trying to use a scare tactic to convince someone that they're more dangerous than a car.
ALL vehicles can flip over if you cannot drive them within their limits. Trucks are not hot rods and aren't meant to take a corner at high speed. If you manage to flip one that isn't the fault of the truck, but your inability to drive it.
Believe it or not, some people feel that gratuitously increasing pollution and CO2 are environmentally irresponsible. Even if you don't care about that, higher consumption of resources that we import has a negative effect on the domestic economy.
Then those "some people" can drive whatever they choose. But trying to dictate that everyone should be forced to drive them is asinine.
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Originally Posted by rruff
Who said they get a pass? If you have a tall vehicle your visibility improves only until everyone else follows suit. Then I guess it's time to go even higher...
So then by your rationale, if everyone drove the same small car the visibility would be the same as it would be if everyone drove large trucks. There is no difference.
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Originally Posted by rruff
If you park places that accommodate large vehicles, then that is good for you. But in some areas space is at a high premium. Look at it this way, if people drove small cars, they could put a lot more of them in a lot, or make the lots smaller.
If everyone drove large trucks, parking spots would stop shrinking to try and cram more people into a store to buy more stuff. For someone who can drive a large truck they can find a parking space. I've never had an issue anywhere and I drive one of the largest 3/4 ton trucks available.
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Originally Posted by rruff
The 500 lb vehicle would be a good size for hauling a person around, and they'd take up a lot less space on the road and in the parking lot. They would be safe as well if the other vehicles on the road were the same size. Oversized vehicles are a danger to others.
But the fact of the matter is that there will never be a time where every vehicle on the road would be a Smart car. It just doesn't work for all families. Even if that were the case, you cannot haul goods to and from places without a large truck, so there will always be some on the road to some capacity. So it's a moot point. Oversized vehicles are not a danger to anyone unless: a) someone in a small car cuts them off and slams on brakes or b)the person in the large truck doesn't know how to operate it. Either way that is a problem of the driver not the truck.
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Originally Posted by rruff
I didn't say anything at all about new trucks being too big as trucks... except for the gratuitous height, which is done for style rather than function.
You simply said they were too big. That's a relative term. In comparison to modern small cars they are big. Compared to modern SUVs and full sized cars they're not that big. Height is again done for a couple of reasons (pay attention). a) Larger springs to carry more load b) ground clearance for ascent/descent. The towing capacity of trucks today are far superior to older trucks. A 1991 F150 has a towing capacity of 7,500 lbs and a payload capacity of just 1,700 lbs. A 2018 F150 has an average towing capacity of 13,000 lbs and a payload capacity of around 2,700 lbs.
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Originally Posted by rruff
They are incredibly oversized however for 90% of what they are used for, which is hauling one person around. If you occasionally need to haul stuff, then getting a trailer to pull behind your car (even a little economy car) will have a lot more utility and a higher payload than a 1/2 ton truck.
I would love to see statistics that show 90% of people only use trucks to commute alone. This is an opinion and isn't even remotely based in fact. A 2017 Honda Accord has 1,700 lbs total towing capacity. When you knock off 500-800 lbs for a trailer, you can only tow a small amount of weight rendering the setup almost useless.
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Originally Posted by rruff
I own a double cab long bed Tundra BTW, which I bought because I needed a large truck. I also have a '86 truck. I would have preferred a bit larger version of that, but nothing similar exists. The Tundra is literally 2x the weight and 3x the horsepower, yet has a smaller payload. Does that seem crazy? The only utility the new trucks are made for is pulling trailers. But I'm sure the Tundra will be fine hauling more than it's designed for once I beef up the suspension. Hopefully the axle bearings will survive.
Obviously you don't understand towing capacity and payload capacity. You can't haul more than it's designed for just by beefing up suspension. Rear gearing, transmission setup, brakes, etc.. all play a large role in determining the capacity of the truck. It may last a little while, but it won't last long. BTW... I thought people only used their trucks for commuting and not hauling anything?
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Originally Posted by rruff
My biggest annoyance is the height. If it's going to be tall, I want good ground clearance at least! To get good ground clearance I need bigger tires and a lift, which makes the cab and bed silly-high. It's done for style. Sitting up high makes people feel "bigger" I guess. Bigger is better...
8-10" of ground clearance isn't anything to scoff at. Still using the 1991 F150 as an example, the ground clearance is about 6" to the center of the axle. Moving to the 20" wheels that many new trucks have increased the overall tire diameter which in turn increases ground clearance. The height is optimized to ensure the truck can handle appropriately while still clearing obstacles that most would drive over in a truck. There's a balance there.
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Originally Posted by rruff
Not that long ago trucks were designed for work, with fancy options added for the luxury models. Now they are fancy metro-sexual big macho cowboy wannabe commuting rigs, with a few stripped down models offered for the few who actually want trucks.
These luxury trucks can still work just as the stripped down versions. As said a million times now, they're a good all around option for someone who wants ONE vehicle that does everything.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Originally Posted by Nattering Heights
Tall trucks flip over. The trend towards taller family vehicles puts kids in danger.
Not any more, cars (and trucks) have stability control now and will apply the brakes if in danger of rolling over. It's been available for several years now.
ALL vehicles can flip over if you cannot drive them within their limits. Trucks are not hot rods and aren't meant to take a corner at high speed. If you manage to flip one that isn't the fault of the truck, but your inability to drive it.
Unless another driver fails to drive their vehicle within its limits, takes a corner too fast, hits the truck, causing it to flip.
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