New Trucks (lights, turbo, premium, transmission)

[headingtoDenver]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Not just trucks. Honda, Subaru and Toyota rarely have much negotiating room or dealer incentives. I saw one a few months ago for a Civic. It was $200.

I'm guessing that may be a function of demand.

When we bought our Honda HRV, this was the case. We got a few hundred bucks off sticker, but we saved money since the Honda dealership does not do any sort of fees. It is the price of the car plus tax and that was it. Also, all of the accessories I purchased, they sold to me at cost since I installed them myself.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by TimtheGuy

BUT a crew cab pick-up is a vehicle that can do everything for me. True, I mostly use it for commuting, BUT I just used it to tow snowmobiles up to Northern WI this last weekend. I also pull a 22 foot boat, a 20 foot travel trailer, I live in MN (lots of snow and ice), I ice fish (yes we drive our trucks right out on to huge frozen lakes), it can haul my small family around town, to hockey practice or on vacation. It literally does it all and I wouldn't drive anything else at this point in my life.

I am not going to store & maintain & insure an extra vehicle so that I can commute in a smaller vehicle. If I did have the extra $$ and extra storage space I would probably get a convertible muscle car for the fair weather commuting. I am sure you would have a problem with too as...why in the world would I need 400 horsepower when I can only go 75 mph.

The folks complaining about this ignore this concept because it doesn't fit their idea of what we should be driving. A truck is a logical choice for a daily driver in a household that requires one occasionally and doesn't want to maintenance and cost of multiple vehicles.

I'm sure my 2500 Ram diesel gets a lot of looks from people like this when folks see me driving into the parking lot every morning. But it just works for everything.

Need to run to the grocery store? Take the truck.
Need to go on vacation and haul luggage, beach toys, coolers, etc.. and a family of 4? Take the truck.
Need to haul home a load of mulch for the flowerbeds? Take the truck.
Need to take kids to baseball practice on a muddy field (kids can dump their muddy clothing in the bed)? Take the truck.
Need to pull someone out of a ditch? Take the truck.
Need to pull a 5th wheel camper? Take the truck.
Need to bring home the new hot water heater? Take the truck.
Need to pull that new lawnmower home on a trailer? Take the truck.
Need to take the family of 4 out to dinner? Take the truck.

I could go on and on. I find very few things that the truck cannot do. It fits the whole family comfortably, can pull darn near anything required, is comfortable to commute in, etc... At almost 19mpg it doesn't do too bad for a 10k lb vehicle.

It makes rational sense for a lot of people. But irrational people who think everyone just commutes straight to work and home without ever stopping somewhere, and who sit at home doing nothing but watching tv tend to think that trucks are useless because they never see them being used.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by Nlambert

The folks complaining about this ignore this concept because it doesn't fit their idea of what we should be driving. A truck is a logical choice for a daily driver in a household that requires one occasionally and doesn't want to maintenance and cost of multiple vehicles.

I'm sure my 2500 Ram diesel gets a lot of looks from people like this when folks see me driving into the parking lot every morning. But it just works for everything.

Need to run to the grocery store? Take the truck.
Need to go on vacation and haul luggage, beach toys, coolers, etc.. and a family of 4? Take the truck.
Need to haul home a load of mulch for the flowerbeds? Take the truck.
Need to take kids to baseball practice on a muddy field (kids can dump their muddy clothing in the bed)? Take the truck.
Need to pull someone out of a ditch? Take the truck.
Need to pull a 5th wheel camper? Take the truck.
Need to bring home the new hot water heater? Take the truck.
Need to pull that new lawnmower home on a trailer? Take the truck.
Need to take the family of 4 out to dinner? Take the truck.

I could go on and on. I find very few things that the truck cannot do. It fits the whole family comfortably, can pull darn near anything required, is comfortable to commute in, etc... At almost 19mpg it doesn't do too bad for a 10k lb vehicle.

It makes rational sense for a lot of people. But irrational people who think everyone just commutes straight to work and home without ever stopping somewhere, and who sit at home doing nothing but watching tv tend to think that trucks are useless because they never see them being used.

You forgot the need to haul a couple dozen full body goose decoys plus layout blinds. Gotta keep your priorities straight.

[UpstateJohn]

Originally Posted by TimtheGuy

BUT a crew cab pick-up is a vehicle that can do everything for me. True, I mostly use it for commuting, BUT I just used it to tow snowmobiles up to Northern WI this last weekend. I also pull a 22 foot boat, a 20 foot travel trailer, I live in MN (lots of snow and ice), I ice fish (yes we drive our trucks right out on to huge frozen lakes), it can haul my small family around town, to hockey practice or on vacation. It literally does it all and I wouldn't drive anything else at this point in my life.

I am not going to store & maintain & insure an extra vehicle so that I can commute in a smaller vehicle. If I did have the extra $$ and extra storage space I would probably get a convertible muscle car for the fair weather commuting. I am sure you would have a problem with too as...why in the world would I need 400 horsepower when I can only go 75 mph.

To get to 75 quicker???

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by UpstateJohn

To get to 75 quicker???

Correct!!

[rruff]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

I'm guessing that may be a function of demand.

Not so much. It's just a different way of doing business.

Apparently Toyota and Honda dealers rarely get large incentives and kickbacks, but domestic brands do, at least on the trucks. So the MSRP and invoice are inflated, giving the savvy buyer a lot of negotiating room.

[Labonte18]

I don't think I did too horrible.. I had to buy a new truck over the weekend.. The old '05 Colorado finally gave up the ghost at 241k miles.

I limped it into my local Chevy dealer, and wound up with an '18 Colorado Extended cab WT package, which is the work truck, but it was very comparable with the old LS package from my '05. Matching bumpers, mirrors and the like.. I got out the door for about $26k.

Now.. This had the V-6 package on it, and I'm a touch nervous about the transmission on the thing.. I mean, I am about all new transmissions because they're putting so many speeds in them.. This is the 3.6L V6 with an 8 speed automatic. Full size spare, which I no doubt paid extra for. And I got the bumper-to-bumper extended to the full 5/100k. also got the counter-weighted tailgate.. Was able to take the bed mat from my '05 and the thing fit perfectly into the bed of the new truck.

Now.. All this being said.. That '05 I bought new for about $11k less. It was only a I-4 and didn't have power locks or mirrors and was a regular cab.. The good news is that my insurance didn't really move much. I had kept comprehensive on the old one for some reason.. It went up about $60/6mos

I'd still prefer to have my old truck, because I woudn't have payments for the next 5 years or so, but.. I also don't have to worry about being stuck on the side of the road. My biggest disappointment is that I didn't make it 300k in the old truck, which was my goal. The tranny started slipping, and I knew that I had valve seals leaking at least in the engine. At that point, repairs were going to be far more than it was worth.

The point of this topic is still valid though. It used to be that trucks were cheaper than cars.. Now, they're more expensive.

[Vic Romano]

Originally Posted by rruff

Not so much. It's just a different way of doing business.

Apparently Toyota and Honda dealers rarely get large incentives and kickbacks, but domestic brands do, at least on the trucks. So the MSRP and invoice are inflated, giving the savvy buyer a lot of negotiating room.

My sister received about $1000 off MSRP on her 2017 CR-V a couple of months ago:

1. It was the end of the model year.
2. We researched dealerships and the car she wanted was on the dealer's lot.
3. No financing.

We did the basic negotiating over the internet and finalized price before we went in. If they know you are a serious buyer, you will have some leverage.

[Nlambert]

Originally Posted by Labonte18

The point of this topic is still valid though. It used to be that trucks were cheaper than cars.. Now, they're more expensive.

As pointed out before, if you buy a loaded to the hilt truck it is definitely more expensive because you are getting a lot for the money. If you buy a work truck package (which is how trucks used to be spec'd out typically) you pay about the same as you would have paid in the 90's once inflation is calculated in.

I went to Ford's website and built two new F150s to compare:

2018 F150 regular cab, 6.5' bed, 2x4 XL:
The standard features on all of the regular cab trucks with the 6.5' bed are (I highlighted the ones that were not considered standard equipment back in the 90's):
Power and Handling
4x2
Axle, Front - Independent Front Suspension
Electronic-Shift-On-the-Fly (ESOF) with Neutral Towing Capability (4x4 only)
Fully boxed frame
Springs - Front, Coil
Springs - Rear, leaf, two-stage variable rate
Steering - Power rack-and-pinion steering
Trailer Sway Control
3.3L Ti-VCT V6 engine
Auto Start/Stop Engine Technology
Electronic 6-Speed Transmission with Tow/Haul and Sport Modes
Fuel Tank - 23-gallon*(Regular Cab, SuperCab)
17-inch silver steel wheels
245/70 R17 BSW all-season tires (4x2 only)
265/70 R17 OWL all-terrain tires (4x4 only)
Jack
Interior Features
Seats - Front - 40/20/40, Cloth
Manual air conditioning, Single Zone
AM/FM stereo
2.3" Productivity Screen
Auxiliary audio input jack
Black vinyl floor covering
Cruise control
Cupholder - Deployable under 20% seat
Dome light
Fade-to-off interior lighting
Gauges and Meters – Fuel, Oil Pressure, Transmission*Temperature and Engine Coolant Temperature;*Speedometer, Odometer and Tachometer
[b]Grab handles (A-Pillar) - Front, Driver- and passenger-side
Horn, dual-note
Intermittent windshield wipers
Manual door locks
Outside temperature display
Powerpoint, 12v - Front
Rearview mirror, Day/Night
Steering wheel - Black urethane
Steering wheel, manual tilt/telescoping
Visors with passenger-side mirror

MSRP Base Price is $27,610. This is the equivalent of $15,245 in 1991 dollars.


Now, let's look at a Platinum. The Platinum V8 Crew cab 4x4 with a 6.5' bed comes with Equipment Group 100A (standard group above) PLUS:

Tailgate Step with Tailgate Lift Assist
Rear Windows - Privacy Glass
Rear Windows - Power-Sliding with Privacy Tint and Defroster
Rear Windows - Defroster
Box Link™
Remote Start System
Extended Range 36 Gallon Fuel Tank
Adaptive Cruise Control with Stop-and-Go
BLIS® (Blind Spot Information System) with Cross-Traffic Alert and Trailer Coverage
Reverse Sensing System
Active Park Assist
LED Side-Mirror Spotlights
LED Box Lighting
Sideview Power-Folding, Power Glass Mirrors with Heat, Turn Signal, Memory, Auto-Dimming Feature, High Intensity LED Security Approach Lamps
Running Boards, Power Deployable
20-inch polished Aluminum Wheels
3.55 Electronic Locking Axle Ratio
275/55R20 BSW All-Season Tires
InteriorS4
Black
Dual-zone Electronic Automatic Temperature Control (DEATC)
Flooring - Color-coordinated Carpet with Carpeted Matching Floor Mats
Second-Row Heated Seats
Inflatable Second-Row Safety Belts
Pro Trailer Backup Assist™
Trailer Brake Controller (TBC)
Heated Steering Wheel
110-volt/400-watt Outlet
SYNC®Connect
360-Degree Camera with Split-View Display
B&O PLAY™ Premium Audio System
SiriusXM® Radio
SYNC® 3
Voice-Activated Touchscreen Navigation System with SiriusXM Traffic and Travel Link®
Unique Heated and Ventilated Multicontour Leather Bucket Seats with Active Motion – Black
Trailer brake controller (TBC)
5.0L Ti-VCT V8 engine
Electronic 10-speed Transmission with Tow/Haul, Snow/Wet, EcoSelect and Sport Modes
Fuel Tank - 26-gallon (SuperCrew®)
20-inch polished aluminum wheels
275/55 R20 BSW all-terrain tires (4x4 only)
Seats - Front - Bucket seats with center flow-through console, Unique multi-contour leather
Seats - Front, 10-way power driver and front passenger
Seats - Front, driver memory
Seats - Front, heated and ventilated
Seats - Rear - 60/40 flip up split bench with elongated cushion (SuperCrew®)
Seats - Rear, heated
Dual-zone Electronic Automatic Temperature Control
SiriusXM Satellite Radio
B&O PLAY premium audio system with single-CD and HD Radio™
SYNC® 3
SYNC® Connect with WiFi® hotspot
SYNC® Connect powered by FordPass
Voice-activated Navigation with SiriusXM Traffic and Travel Link®
110-volt/400-watt Power Inverter - Instrument Panel (SuperCab and SuperCrew®)
110-volt/400-watt Power Inverter - Rear Flow-Through Console (SuperCab and SuperCrew®)
8" Productivity Screen
Ambient lighting
Automatic high beams
Auxiliary audio input jack
Black carpet flooring with unique front and rear floor mats
Delayed accessory power
Flow-through center console with floor shifter
Fully flat load floor (SuperCrew® models)
Intelligent access with push-button start
MyKey®
Overhead console (SuperCab and SuperCrew®)
Power-adjustable pedals with memory
Powerpoint, 12v - Front
Powerpoint, 12v - Rear (SuperCab and SuperCrew®)
Rain-sensing wipers
Reverse Sensing System
Steering wheel - Black leather-wrapped
Steering wheel, heated
Steering wheel, power tilt/telescoping with memory and electronic locking
Unique genuine wood interior trim accents
Universal garage door opener
Visors with driver- and passenger-side illuminated, covered mirrors
Autolamp - automatic on/off headlamps with rainlamp wiper activated headlamps
BoxLink™
Bumper, Front - Body-Color
Bumper, Rear - Body-Color
Cargo lamp, integrated with center high-mounted stop lamp (CHMSL)
Daytime Running Lamps
Easy Fuel® capless fuel filler
Fascia, Front - Body-Color
Fog lamps - LED*
Grille - Satin Chrome Two-Bar Style with Satin Chrome Surround and Silver Mesh Inserts
Handles, door and tailgate - body-color bezel with chrome strap
Hooks - Front Tow, two (4x4 only)
Hooks - cargo box tie-down (4)
LED Box Lighting
LED Mirror-Mounted Spotlights
Quad Beam LED Headlamps and Led Taillamps
Remote Tailgate Release
Running Boards, Power Deployable (SuperCrew®)
Side Mirrors - Auto Dimming Feature (Driver's Side)
Side Mirrors - Heated
Side Mirrors - Integrated Turn Signal
Side Mirrors - LED Security Approach Lamps
Side Mirrors - Memory Feature
Side Mirrors - Power Folding
Side Mirrors, Dual Glass - Power Adjust
Side Mirrors, Skull Caps - Chrome
Spare Tire Carrier - Rear underframe
Tailgate LED
Tailgate, power lock
Wheellip moldings - Body-color
Window - Rear - Power sliding glass with privacy tint and defroster (SuperCab and SuperCrew®)
Windows - First-row - Power, one-touch up/down driver and passenger
Windows - Second-row - Power (SuperCab and SuperCrew®)
Windshield wiper de-icer
Rear View Camera with Dynamic Hitch Assist
AdvanceTrac® with Roll Stability Control™ (RSC®)
Airbags - Front, Driver and passenger
Airbags - Front, Driver and passenger seat-mounted side
Airbags - Safety Canopy® side curtains
BLIS® (Blind Spot Information System) with Cross-Traffic Alert
Curve Control
Four-Wheel Anti-Lock Brakes
Inflatable Second-Row Safety Belts (SuperCrew®)
Safety belts - Active Restraint System (ARS), three-point manual lap/shoulder belts with height adjusters, pretensioners and energy management retractors on outside front positions
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS)
Perimeter anti-theft alarm
Remote Keyless Entry System
Remote Start System
SecuriCode™ keyless entry keypad, driver's side
SecuriLock® passive anti-theft system
SOS Post-Crash Alert System™
Spare tire and wheel lock
Enhanced Security Pack
Class IV Trailer Hitch

That one's MSRP is $59,285. That would be the equivalent of $32,700 in 1991 money.

Trucks are more expensive because of the add-ons. If you get a base model, they're comparable with inflation to what trucks used to cost.

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by rruff

N

Families and households keep getting smaller as well, yet vehicles keep getting bigger.



.

really.....my 1st car was a '72 Buick LeSabre and it was YUGE! it had a 350 with a 4 barrel carb and got about 11 MPG.