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It also throws off the mixture adjustments, since 10% ethanol fuel has less energy content vs 100% pure gas, I have enrichen the idle/air adjustment screws beyond specs because none of my classic cars will run smoothly anymore if I still went by what the shop manual states.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creature of the Wheel
I'm well aware of how crappy ethanol is and how awful my car runs on gasoline with a blend higher than 5%.
Wanting to know just how much benefit there was to having an ethanol blend, while on a long-distance motorcycle trip I recorded the average mpg for all tanks of fuel ranging from pure gas (0% ethanol) to 15% ethanol. My results indicated that not only was there no 'benefit' to ethanol, the mpg was reduced in direct proportion to the amount of ethanol such that the amount of gasoline that was burned using an ethanol blend was greater than the amount burned using pure gasoline, and the higher the blend the greater the disparity.
So, not only does it take more fossil fuel to produce the ethanol, the end use has a negative effect on fuel consumption, causing more gas to be burned than if it were not added.
I've been ranting about this scam for years, and I think that anyone arguing that it is a good thing is full of 'it'. *Somebody* is benefiting from it, but it ain't the consumers.
you guys are only looking at one thing and trying to rationalize your hate for ethanol, reality check here, i have already noted the benefits to corn ethanol, and they have been known for decades, but you are ignoring them.
as for damaging engines, that is pure rubbish, i have dealt with alcohol fuels for decades as well, the only issues i have run across is fuel system parts that are not designed to handle ethanol, since alcohol is a solvent. once ethanol proof fuel lines are installed, and ethanol proofing is done in the rest of the fuel system is done, ethanol is quite a viable fuel.
No, you're just believing the propaganda from Big Business. Either that or you're prepared to perpetuate the lie because you have a vested interest.
People who think it's perfectly acceptable to feed cattle a non-species specific diet are like the ones who think it's smart to feed your dogs kibble, despite the evidence that it's a contributing factor to the modern epidemic of disease.
Cattles digestive tracts aren't designed to digest a high starch feed like corn. It causes much discomfort & pain but who cares right? As long as it increases the profit margin.
Yes, yes, let's spend thousands of dollars on our cars so we can use ethanol so that we don't foul the fuel system & cause other damage, so that the rich can become richer.
And who cares if growing corn, especially on inappropriate land, is bad for the environment? As long as the greedy are making a buck.
Just be honest & admit that you make your living from ethanol &/or corn, & that you couldn't care any less the harm it does to both the environment & to the animals who are fed corn.
I use E85 pretty regularly now and also sometimes use regular gas w/o the ethanol depending on which gas station I go to. My mileage does not seem to vary either way in my current vehicle (2012 Focus).
It was a different story in my 2000 Windstar. It got HORRID mileage with the E85 stuff. Not saying that it was wonderful on gas to begin with but it was even worse with ethanol. When I drove it to and from work, I would go out of my way a few miles to fill it up with ethanol free gas because it did make a difference in gas mileage for me.
I've heard other people with older vehicles say the same thing so wondering if this is common?
you guys are only looking at one thing and trying to rationalize your hate for ethanol, reality check here, i have already noted the benefits to corn ethanol, and they have been known for decades, but you are ignoring them.
as for damaging engines, that is pure rubbish, i have dealt with alcohol fuels for decades as well, the only issues i have run across is fuel system parts that are not designed to handle ethanol, since alcohol is a solvent. once ethanol proof fuel lines are installed, and ethanol proofing is done in the rest of the fuel system is done, ethanol is quite a viable fuel.
LOL. First you say that ethanol doesn't damage engines, then you say that some engines require the fuel lines to be replaced with ethanol proof units. Your second statement is correct, which negates your proclamation that ethanol doesn't damage engines. Since you're such an ethanol fan, I'm eagerly waiting for you to reimburse me for damages to fuel systems on several vehicles on I own.
Let me guess....you're probably a mechanic and are making money off of this debacle. Still waiting to here the benefits of ethanol (other than enriching you and a bunch of farmers).
The only way to rationalize it is as a subsidy for farmers.
No it's not because they grow corn instead of food for human consumption driving up costs of food for human consumption and potentially causing food shortages. This is the exact thing the farm subsides were created to prevent, they are tool used to insure adequate food production.
Farming is one industry that is very unpredictable because of mother nature which is something completely out the hands of the farmer. If there is a bad growing season they may be making a lot on what they have to sell but there is very little to sell and food prices go through the roof. If they have an excellent growing season they may have huge amounts of food but may only be to sell at a loss if they can sell it all. There solution is to plant less so they know they will not lose a lot of money during a good season.
The subsidies insure they overplant preventing both high prices and food shortages.
i agree that it isnt the clean energy that some make it out to be, in fact i point this out in just about every thread made about ethanol fuels. the myth comes from the early days of emissions testing when the sensors were tuned for gasoline only. ethanol burns too cold for those sensors to pick up the emissions from burning that particular fuel.
but dont forget that corn has more uses that food and fuel. fructose is a form of sugar that is inexpensive to make, as is corn syrup, plastic, etc. and most of these products are made from feed stock corn not food stock corn. so the land that this feed stock corn is grown on, will still be used for growing feed stock corn, so we may as well use it to the fullest extent.
Fructose and corn syrup ARE food, although I am not convinced that they are good food. I am not saying we should completely do away with these corn farms, only lamenting the fact that they have, in parts of the country, driven out almost literally anything else, including small family farms with more diverse crops.
Wanting to know just how much benefit there was to having an ethanol blend, while on a long-distance motorcycle trip I recorded the average mpg for all tanks of fuel ranging from pure gas (0% ethanol) to 15% ethanol. My results indicated that not only was there no 'benefit' to ethanol, the mpg was reduced in direct proportion to the amount of ethanol such that the amount of gasoline that was burned using an ethanol blend was greater than the amount burned using pure gasoline, and the higher the blend the greater the disparity.
So, not only does it take more fossil fuel to produce the ethanol, the end use has a negative effect on fuel consumption, causing more gas to be burned than if it were not added.
I've been ranting about this scam for years, and I think that anyone arguing that it is a good thing is full of 'it'. *Somebody* is benefiting from it, but it ain't the consumers.
It's not a great everyday fuel if you're not tuned to take advantage of it. That's all there really is to it, but there are certainly ways for some people to utilize it. I'm not aware of any motorcycles that are designed to take advantage of the higher octane and am not familiar with motorcycle ECU technology to know if it's even feasible to do so.
It's not a great everyday fuel if you're not tuned to take advantage of it. That's all there really is to it, but there are certainly ways for some people to utilize it. I'm not aware of any motorcycles that are designed to take advantage of the higher octane and am not familiar with motorcycle ECU technology to know if it's even feasible to do so.
That's one of the problems- if you don't have a motor designed to run on alcohol, it doesn't do much good. Ethanol contains about 30% less energy per unit volume than gasoline. Ethanol also contains oxygen atoms, which screws with the air/fuel mixture.
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