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First was a heavy oil based enamel. They often applied multiple coats because of the opacity of the enamel. So it built up thick.
Sometime back in the 20's spray equipment came onto the scene but the lacquer used was dull so it took a lot of hand rubbing to get it to shine. Back then, a week or two to complete a finish wasn't uncommon. It still wasn't all that thick though, so multiple layers were required and hand rubbing was still a thing to obtain any kind of shine.
Sometime between the 20's and 50's an alkyd enamel was used on some cars because you could bake the finish to get it to lay out flat and shine without hand rubbing. But they were high in VOC's.
In the late 50's to early 60's they began trying out acrylic enamels. They were harsh on the environment though and not that durable but the application time was much faster.
From the late 70's to early 90's the basecoat/clearcoat water-borne paints were introduced. Once they got past the issues of peeling clearcoat they were durable options although the clearcoats were still paper thin. But much better than previous options.
Now most cars are painted with either single stage or two-stage urethane paints. A single stage system is one where the basecoat/clearcoat is combined so the paint goes all the way through. Not quite as durable as a two stage and trying to buff single stage paint is a chore. Your pads will instantly turn the color of the car as soon as you begin to buff.
Two-stage is nice because you have multiple coats of clear to work with before getting to the underlying paint. The downside is that the paint is often thin, so break through a clearcoat and you'll be down to the primer coat/bare metal really quickly. This is why it is important to maintain the clearcoat and keep it free from contaminates.
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
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You folks have a lot of time on your hands. I have a detailer clean the interior of most of my cars once a year (they come to my houses to do the work) and run the car through the car wash when dirty. That's it. Modern finishes don't need much more, even on my cars that are hand painted.
You folks have a lot of time on your hands. I have a detailer clean the interior of most of my cars once a year (they come to my houses to do the work) and run the car through the car wash when dirty. That's it. Modern finishes don't need much more, even on my cars that are hand painted.
Completely wrong.... Modern finishes do need more. People just tend to overlook them because the clear coat will withstand abuse much better than a single stage paint will. If you compared the car in ten years to another ten year old example that has been detailed correctly you will then see a tremendous difference in the finish at that point.
It's not about having too much time on your hands. It's about maintaining the quality of the vehicle to keep maintenance costs down and to improve resale value down the road.
No matter how good you think the condition of your paint is, if you were to put it up against an identical one that has been maintained with a proper detailing there will be a big difference. Put a bright light up to your paint and I'll guarantee the clearcoat will be littered with swirl marks and full of debris. That is damage that will eventually eat through the clear and make its way into the actual paint layer underneath. Once that happens, it's a full on repaint.
I'm not saying you need to detail one every week. In reality detailing twice per year with a hand wash once per week is really all you need to maintain the finish in most cases. The goal is to keep the surface flat and protected. When you do that, it's much more difficult for debris to become imbedded in the paint and will keep the finish on much longer.
I can't seem to find any references to clay bar older than 10 tears. Does anyone own a car older than 10 years old that has never been clay barred and still has a nice paint job?
I can't seem to find any references to clay bar older than 10 tears. Does anyone own a car older than 10 years old that has never been clay barred and still has a nice paint job?
I've got a 20-year old paint job on a garage kept Mustang that is still nice that ive never clayed or really detailed. However, easy to do when the car drives less than 200 miles a year.
Everytime I buy a new car, I start out with great optimism to keep up on the paint. When I was in my 20's I could just spend all Sat AM outside detailing and getting that thing to shine like a diamond. Then I find I as I got older and have more stuff to do, I don't have the time. I used to insist on hand-wash only, but the latest new car just gets run through the automatic car wash. I still pull my wheels off to detail BOTH sides of them. I just can't stand brake dust through the spokes of the big open wheels they put on cars these days. I make time for that.
We just bought a new car last week, and it's already covered in salt from winter. I just don't care anymore. I'd rather go golfing.
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal
I can't seem to find any references to clay bar older than 10 tears. Does anyone own a car older than 10 years old that has never been clay barred and still has a nice paint job?
I can't seem to find any references to clay bar older than 10 tears. Does anyone own a car older than 10 years old that has never been clay barred and still has a nice paint job?
In the past clay bars were mostly available to professionals and not so much to consumers. Since there was a large mix of single stage and two stage paints floating around in the 90's you won't find much on them because a) they weren't readily available to consumers and b) detailers kept that to themselves as not understanding the type of paint you had could cause damage.
For those old cars who have a mirror polish with a single stage paint the process involves a lot of labor to cut and buff the paint to bring back the shine and remove swirls. It doesn't last very long though, and you end up having to do it again. If claybars are being used, then the car has been resprayed with a basecoat/clearcoat system (2 stage).
Clay bars came around about the time of the invent of the two stage paint system. You don't clay bar a single stage paint. You would just end up removing paint.
Here's a better explanation of why clay bars are needed.
"What Can Contaminate Your Vehicle's Surface?
1. Brake Dust - Particles produced from the friction of brake pads rubbing against the rotor. This metal on metal friction disperses tiny particles of bare metal into the air and on the highways and virtually everywhere your car travels. Constant movement of vehicles propels it into the air and dispenses it over the vehicle's surface.
2. Industrial Fallout - Another word for pollution, industrial fallout is a by-product of our surroundings. It comes from industrial businesses and factories as well as diesel vehicles and includes even airplane fallout.
3. Rail Dust - Produced from the friction of train wheels against railroad tracks. Over 75% of new vehicles are shipped by rail. Nearly all new vehicles are contaminated as soon as they leave the factory.
When Should You Clay Bar?
You can clay bar your car as often as you wish or simply prior to waxing or polishing your vehicle. To acquire the best smooth as glass touch and feel result it is ideal to always clay bar your vehicle prior to application of wax, glaze, polish or paint sealant. Many people have never heard of clay baring because for a while clay bars were only available to professionals. Claying is less abrasive then polishing or buffing the surface. Claying actually pulls out foreign particles and contaminants that have embedded themselves in the paint. Polishes are intended more to be used as cleaners for paint, such as cleaning the paint, filling swirls and scratches, restoring and maximizing shine by smoothing over sharp edges.
How is clay different from polishing or buffing?
Many people have never heard of clay barring because for awhile clay bars were only available to professionals. Claying is less abrasive than polishing or buffing the surface. Claying actually pulls out foreign particles and contaminants that have embedded themselves in the paint. Polishes are intended more to be used as cleaners for paint, such as cleaning the paint, filling swirls and scratches, restoring and maximizing shine by smoothing over sharp edges. "
Most vehicles come from the manufacturer with rail dust embedded in the paint since most vehicles are delivered to from the manufacturer by rail car.
Now, understand how a claybar works in conjunction WITH other products. It doesn't work on it's own.
A claybar removes contaminates, and often those contaminates have left microscopic gouges and scratches in the clearcoat. Afterwards, you would polish the paint. Polish plays the role of filling in those microscopic gouges (paint swirls to many people) and provides a clear and flat surface for a wax to bond to. Once polished, wax brings the luster out and makes the paint "pop" and seals the clear coat so that the polish applied isn't removed from the previous gouges.
Again, this is perception. Let me ask this... what do you consider a "nice" paintjob? One that shines at 10 ft away for a few days? If so, then clay bars aren't necessary.
If by "nice" you mean completely smooth to the touch, deep in luster, and lasts years (with a proper detail regimen) then you will never get that without the first step being a clay bar. It's not possible.
Ask any detailer that works on high end vehicles. I would bet a dollar to a donut that you won't find one with a good reputation that doesn't clay bar a car.
Here are some quick links to examples of detailing companies all around the country with excellent reviews in their areas. The best reviewed companies all seem to offer this service. I wonder why.
Miami:
High End Detail -
"This package contains everything that the standard exterior package provides but with a more in-depth focus on the paint. If your car’s paint has never been clayed or feels rough, this would be a good package for you to start with." services – High End Detail
Washington, D.C.:
Exotic Auto Detail -
Advance clay bar treatment (thoroughly removes bonded contaminants*from paint)
Just as an idea.
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