For the american car haters (credit, braking, pickup trucks, mileage)

[professorsenator]

I am a dedicated Lexus/Toyota/Honda/Acura buyer. When it comes to buying a new car I will only look at these four (two, actually) brands.

But I must admit that I have a soft spot for big, luxurious U.S. cars from the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's. They're kitschy cool. I loved the giant Lincoln Town Cars and Mark coupes of the 70's; I loved the Caddy Fleetwoods of that era (the 76 limo posted in this forum is great!) Who couldn't like a huge Buick deuce and a quarter with crushed velour? Or it's offspring, the Park Avenue? How could you not crack just a little smile at seeing a battleship-sized 70's era Chrysler New Yorker?

I loved the padded vinyl roofs, opera windows, and superfluous courtesy lights. I fondly remember the casket-style door handles, the tufted leather seats, and swaths of fake wood...

[OhEdo]

Originally Posted by ZipZap

To be more precise the Vue, Aura and Astra are rebadged Opel models from Germany, whereas the Opel GT is a rebadged Sky Saturn.

I stand corrected. But for the home town fans among us, shouldn't it be a point of pride that a small rear-drive roadster like the Sky is engineered here and the technology exported to Europe as an Opel (heck I remember the imported Opel GT mini-corvette looking things they used to sell at Buick dealers)? I mean, a car like the Sky/Solstice is exactly the sort of car you would expect foreign brands to be producing - the small, open two seater (as opposed to grand tourers and such) was arguably invented by the British (MG, Austin Healey, Triumph et al.) perfected by the Japanese (Mazda) and overdone by the Germans (BMW, Mercedes, Porsche). Of course, the Miata/MX-5 still seems to win in most magazines' comparisons against the Sky/Solstice...

[mikewu9900]

you just cant argue with the fact that foreign car keep there value, don't brake down as much, and are more stylish then the American cars today. 100+ years of experience building cars in Detroit and suddenly they forgot how to do it with any integrity. now they have to give you 100,000 mile warranty's to sell you the car, well what happens when that warranty runs out? the car brakes down!!! sad story...

I've yet to see many American car hit 200k miles without being on motor or tranny #2 or #3 even. but you will see many foreign cars hit 200k or 300k and still run great... 90-93 Honda accords i see all the time with 200k+ running like champs. and i see 2000 dodge intrepid's with 110k in the junk yards all the time.

i don't hate American cars, i hate that it gives up a bad name as a country that we cant make a decent car anymore. someone mentioned corvette and dodge viper, but c'mon, owners of these particular cars don't drive em like daily drivers and wash them daily and i think they shouldn't be characterized the same as your average American car.

make a good product, have a loyle customer base.......IMO

[Deez Nuttz]

Originally Posted by mikewu9900

100+ years of experience building cars in Detroit and suddenly they forgot how to do it with any integrity. now they have to give you 100,000 mile warranty's to sell you the car, well what happens when that warranty runs out? the car brakes down!!! sad story...

I've yet to see many American car hit 200k miles without being on motor or tranny #2 or #3 even.

Actually Hyundai is the only one I know of that offers a 100k mile warranty or 10 years whichever comes first.

And for what it's worth my 93 S-10 is pushing 174k on the original engine and trans, perhaps it can go a little further to 200k?

And that's not to say, you can get virtually any engine to go 200k with regular oil changes and not revving the snot out of it. Trannies their biggest killer is heat.

Dodge Intrepids...? Those things were built cheap. That's the problem, people had their Cavalier, Celebrity, or whatever cheaply built FWD car take a dump on them and base that conclusion that all American cars are junk, never mind there's still a lot of old Ford and Chevy trucks from the 60's still running around...or a 70 Nova or a Mercury Montego....as mention I believe around 1972 automakers really started getting cheap on cars, before that they seemed to run forever.

[Fleet]

Originally Posted by mikewu9900

you just cant argue with the fact that foreign car keep there value, don't brake down as much,

It would depend on the make on model. Recent models of certain Mercedes, VW, BMW, Audi and Porsche have had reliability problems. Consumer Reports recommends 0% of Mercedes models (compared to 64% of Ford products).

and are more stylish then the American cars today.

"Stylish?" I find most Euro and Japanese cars to look egg-shaped, blob-shaped or just plain ugly.

100+ years of experience building cars in Detroit and suddenly they forgot how to do it with any integrity. now they have to give you 100,000 mile warranty's to sell you the car, well what happens when that warranty runs out? the car brakes down!!! sad story...

As others can confirm, not all American cars break down. Many do go 100,000 miles with no or minimal trouble (my '95 Lincoln Town Car has 116,000 miles and they are know to last for 200,000 and even 300,000 miles with the original engine and transmission).

I've yet to see many American car hit 200k miles without being on motor or tranny #2 or #3 even. but you will see many foreign cars hit 200k or 300k and still run great... 90-93 Honda accords i see all the time with 200k+ running like champs. and i see 2000 dodge intrepid's with 110k in the junk yards all the time.

My parent's 1970 Cadillac Coupe de Ville passed the 200,000 mark with the original engine and transmission- no rebuilds. And, as I posted above, the Lincoln Town Cars and Ford Crown Victorias have a well-proven reliability record... that is one reason why the Crown Vics are used as police cars and taxi cabs.

i don't hate American cars, i hate that it gives up a bad name as a country that we cant make a decent car anymore. someone mentioned corvette and dodge viper, but c'mon, owners of these particular cars don't drive em like daily drivers and wash them daily and i think they shouldn't be characterized the same as your average American car.

make a good product, have a loyle customer base.......IMO

Both Cadillac and Buick are in the top 5 of the J.D. Powers and Associates list of initial quality.

[Fleet]

Originally Posted by Deez Nuttz

Actually Hyundai is the only one I know of that offers a 100k mile warranty or 10 years whichever comes first.

I should point out the way back in 1963, Chrysler Corporation (the REAL Chrysler Corporation) introduced a 5-year/50,000 mile warranty on all of their production cars- from the 6-cylinder Plymouth Valiant to the Imperial.

This over 20 years before cars like Acura and Lexus were even dreamed of being built!

[mikewu9900]

Originally Posted by Deez Nuttz

Actually Hyundai is the only one I know of that offers a 100k mile warranty or 10 years whichever comes first.

And for what it's worth my 93 S-10 is pushing 174k on the original engine and trans, perhaps it can go a little further to 200k?

And that's not to say, you can get virtually any engine to go 200k with regular oil changes and not revving the snot out of it. Trannies their biggest killer is heat.

Dodge Intrepids...? Those things were built cheap. That's the problem, people had their Cavalier, Celebrity, or whatever cheaply built FWD car take a dump on them and base that conclusion that all American cars are junk, never mind there's still a lot of old Ford and Chevy trucks from the 60's still running around...or a 70 Nova or a Mercury Montego....as mention I believe around 1972 automakers really started getting cheap on cars, before that they seemed to run forever.

as for your truck, i didn't say i don't like American trucks. i believe American made trucks are the best on the road... the cars on the other hand is where my problem is.

also, to correct myself, GM is offering limited lifetime warranty's with all there cars. i guess of the big 3, i feel GM is the best with the cars, but still lacking behind its foreign competitors. and as for Hyundai, kia, most Mitsubishi's, etc, they aren't well made cars either.

i am 27 and some of those older cars i can't say anything about, i wasn't there, but what i am saying is the cars built the last 10-20 years, how many foreign cars do you see on the road? many more then their American counter parts.

i work on cars professionally and my original statement is based on experience, everyone in my industry who works on most of these American cars call them toilets...

one other point i'd like to make is: seeing how most people who own American car are usually American car lovers, wouldn't you call it fair to say that they make a little more effort to maintain there vehicles? so the extra love and still the disappointment in the end. if you ever walk around a junk yard, you notice the only newer Honda's, Toyota's, Nissan's are smashed up, yet i see many 98+ American car in there because of mechanical problems and people gave up on them to buy something foreign most likely...

[mikewu9900]

Originally Posted by Fleet

It would depend on the make on model. Recent models of certain Mercedes, VW, BMW, Audi and Porsche have had reliability problems. Consumer Reports recommends 0% of Mercedes models (compared to 64% of Ford products).

"Stylish?" I find most Euro and Japanese cars to look egg-shaped, blob-shaped or just plain ugly.

As others can confirm, not all American cars break down. Many do go 100,000 miles with no or minimal trouble (my '95 Lincoln Town Car has 116,000 miles and they are know to last for 200,000 and even 300,000 miles with the original engine and transmission).



My parent's 1970 Cadillac Coupe de Ville passed the 200,000 mark with the original engine and transmission- no rebuilds. And, as I posted above, the Lincoln Town Cars and Ford Crown Victorias have a well-proven reliability record... that is one reason why the Crown Vics are used as police cars and taxi cabs.



Both Cadillac and Buick are in the top 5 of the J.D. Powers and Associates list of initial quality.

i am going to reply one by one with my opinion or facts due to the fact i work on cars and see several examples of this daily.....

Mercedes and ford are 2 different things, have you driven a ford tauras lately?? i saw a 2003 selling for 1000 dollars with a bad transmission...and i see that ALL THE TIME

no style??? thats your opinion, but i noticed that in the 80's and 90's American cars came with gay racing strips and such, and the cars weren't fast, or blue or red leather ( yuck!!!!!!!!) ugly carriage tops, i don't see the point of that, so that is my opinion

as for "not all American cars break down" that is true, but its so easy to stereotype when i see it happen so much more ofter vs foreign cars.

and ford crown vic have serious problems all the time, which is why police depts. and taxi's are doing away with them and going to GM, for years, most police depts. had a contract with ford to buy from them and most depts. that contracts running out or it over. my garage has an account with Tampa PD and i see head gasket and transmission problem over and over.

and as for J.D power or consumer reports, i put absolutely no stock in what they have to say. they test these cars when there brand new and over the years, time and time again, they have picked ford tauruas, dodge intrepid, chrysler LHS, etc. and who remembers that? they get the cars for 10k and i don't know or any car that has problems under that low mileage.

Just breakdown what this means: initial quality. it means the quality initially. when NEW

[Fleet]

Originally Posted by mikewu9900

i am going to reply one by one with my opinion or facts due to the fact i work on cars and see several examples of this daily.....

You are not the only one who works on cars.

Mercedes and ford are 2 different things, have you driven a ford tauras lately?? i saw a 2003 selling for 1000 dollars with a bad transmission...and i see that ALL THE TIME

Mercedes and Ford certainly are 2 different things. Fords are more reliable!
On this car survey website, the 2003 Ford Taurus does much better than the 2003 Mercedes (M-class in this instance):
Ford: 2003 Ford Taurus Reviews - Carsurvey.org

Mercedes: 2003 Mercedes-Benz M-Class Reviews - Carsurvey.org

no style??? thats your opinion, but i noticed that in the 80's and 90's American cars came with gay racing strips and such, and the cars weren't fast, or blue or red leather ( yuck!!!!!!!!) ugly carriage tops, i don't see the point of that, so that is my opinion.

Yes, styling is an opinion, but some foreign cars also came with racing stripes and many were not fast, either.

as for "not all American cars break down" that is true, but its so easy to stereotype when i see it happen so much more ofter vs foreign cars.

Where do you work on cars? And is what "you see" the same across the country?

and ford crown vic have serious problems all the time, which is why police depts. and taxi's are doing away with them and going to GM, for years, most police depts. had a contract with ford to buy from them and most depts. that contracts running out or it over. my garage has an account with Tampa PD and i see head gasket and transmission problem over and over.

One of my friends used to work at a CHP station (California Highway Patrol) and he said it was rare when he had to work on a Ford Crown Vic which needed more than the usual oil and tire change and brakes. Out here, Crown Vics have been used as police cars and taxi cabs for well over 20 years. And if they had serious problems (which they don't), they wouldn't be used. Because both of those organizations (police & taxi) simply could not afford to use cars that were not reliable.

and as for J.D power or consumer reports, i put absolutely no stock in what they have to say. they test these cars when there brand new and over the years, time and time again, they have picked ford tauruas, dodge intrepid, chrysler LHS, etc. and who remembers that? they get the cars for 10k and i don't know or any car that has problems under that low mileage.

"Absolutely" no stock? Why? Because there are some American cars on top!?!

Just breakdown what this means: initial quality. it means the quality initially. when NEW.

Would you prefer a car have poor initial quality? And, again, if only foreign cars were on top, you would probably be singing praises for J.D. Power.
As for Consumer Reports, it is far from being a 100% accurate source, but it is a good general guide to go by. And if they don't recommend ANY Mercedes models, I certainly wouldn't take a chance buying one... I would buy a Ford instead!

[mikewu9900]

Originally Posted by Fleet

You are not the only one who works on cars.



Mercedes and Ford certainly are 2 different things. Fords are more reliable!
On this car survey website, the 2003 Ford Taurus does much better than the 2003 Mercedes (M-class in this instance):
Ford: 2003 Ford Taurus Reviews - Carsurvey.org

Mercedes: 2003 Mercedes-Benz M-Class Reviews - Carsurvey.org



Yes, styling is an opinion, but some foreign cars also came with racing stripes and many were not fast, either.



Where do you work on cars? And is what "you see" the same across the country?



One of my friends used to work at a CHP station (California Highway Patrol) and he said it was rare when he had to work on a Ford Crown Vic which needed more than the usual oil and tire change and brakes. Out here, Crown Vics have been used as police cars and taxi cabs for well over 20 years. And if they had serious problems (which they don't), they wouldn't be used. Because both of those organizations (police & taxi) simply could not afford to use cars that were not reliable.



"Absolutely" no stock? Why? Because there are some American cars on top!?!



Would you prefer a car have poor initial quality? And, again, if only foreign cars were on top, you would probably be singing praises for J.D. Power.
As for Consumer Reports, it is far from being a 100% accurate source, but it is a good general guide to go by. And if they don't recommend ANY Mercedes models, I certainly wouldn't take a chance buying one... I would buy a Ford instead!

first off I'd like to point out that you keep bring up a German luxury car ( Mercedes ) and putting that again ford. im pretty much talking about Honda, Toyota, and Nissan in my replies.

your not really making any points, but your showing your ignorance in the fact that you love American made cars and thats all. you state im not the only one who works on car, but i noticed in your profile, you are in real estate. whats your point?

i can see that being an older guy, with the car collection you posses, and a product of reaganomics, i can see why you would try to trash the quality of a foreign made vehicle for you own mental benefits.

you claim the 2003 tauraus did better than the Mercedes, so why are so many tauruas's no longer on the road due to mechanical issues? i never see a Mercedes on the side of the road, do you???

by the way, i work at a shop in Tampa Florida. it is hot here and you may be on to something giving most of fords problems are due to overheating, maybe thats why i see so many broke down, but i Ive only live here for 6 months and i seen a ton up in Rhode Island where im from in which the heat shouldn't be a problem. so no i haven't seen this all over the country, but 1300 miles away and the same, so im guessing it real. maybe they only build good fords where they have California emissions, but its doubtful because that has nothing to due with shotty transmissions.

when i said racing strips, i was thinking of those super fast Calais from the 80's lol, and cars like 3.8 liter cutlasses, show me a foreign car with FACTORY strips that isnt fast. come to think of it i only see those Mazda protegues sports with a turbo and factory stripes

and i already told you why i put no stock in J.D power, and it has nothing to do with American cars being on the list, trust me, the problem here is i would always buy American made cars, if they stopped messing around and built them right, i mean they been doing it for over 100 years. what is the problem???? the fact that they make there cars JUST barley make the warranty is a reason i bought my old 98 accord with the 36000 mile warranty, i knew id never need it, i bought the reliability of Honda. I could crap in a box and warranty it, but that doesn't make it good. its still on the road with 208,000 miles and nothing major ever broke. you buy American cars for the same price or more, and it doesn't last, now thats what i call stupid. bad investments.

my nabors jeep grand Cherokee has 38000 miles and its on the 3rd transmission, she is without the truck as much as she has it and she hates it. stuck in the loan, what can she do??? i bet all the money in the world her next car wont be an American car.

they brought it on themselves!!!!!!!!!!!! and now aren't selling as many cars.

i have two words for you: FORD TAURAUS
oh wait, two more words: DODGE INTREPID

if they built a good product, they'd have a loyle customer base

i wish they would build these cars better, they are American cars, and im an American. just isn't happening.