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So if the Germans are such great engineers, why can't they make their cars just as reliable as the Japanese -- or is driveability and reliability mutually exclusive?
I'll pay for a few extra repair bills to drive something with a little spirit and not some soulless Japanese driving appliance.
And yes quality and reliability can be mutually exclusive. To make something reliable you need to fix the problems with it but cannot change it or else you may introduce new problems. To make a high quality product you will need to improve it which involves changing it.
I noticed this too. Every taxi in Lisbon, Portugal is a smaller Mercedes, it seems.
I think the high-line brands are good cars, if you feel like spending $500 for tune-ups, and your lifestyle "requires" it. When I had barely started to drive, my family also had a Toyota and then a Fiat. The Toyota had carburetion/fuel delivery issues that couldn't be calibrated ... and the Fiat was full of electrical gremlins.
Our American cars, all GM, blew them away in terms of reliability, except for one Camaro I picked up as my "weekend car." I find it sad to see that SoCal is obsessed with owning foreign cars and some people go as far as to put you down if you drive American. Realistically, if it wasn't for the heartland and the South, and China, the domestics wouldn't be selling as many cars. I have always owned an American car and hopefully always will. European cars do not impress me in the least and I don't need to make any "statements."
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypee
So if the Germans are such great engineers, why can't they make their cars just as reliable as the Japanese -- or is driveability and reliability mutually exclusive?
Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar
Well for one I think it has to do with fine tolerances degrading over time and perhaps cost cutting in other areas; like engine cooling, fuel pumps and electrical.
Also being on the cutting edge means having a bit more flaws and kinks to work out.
And over time these things will rear their ugly head; that's why you have to be proactive rather than reactive.
I do think (and I don't have any evidence to back this up) that a lot more German cars outside of the USA are either diesel or smaller cars like the 1 series and don't have as many issues.
I don't want to say that all German cars will break down, but I do think on average they do more than other brands, especially later in life. There is a sacrifice for decent initial quality for quality later in life and I think it's deliberate.
German cars in the US are sold quite differently then they are in Europe. More features in the US cars are standard compared to European-market models.. Of course, more features will mean more parts which will break which means they will be expensive to fix and replace. Take the 3 series from BMW. Because cars and their associated costs are so expensive in Europe, most will not opt for a 328i or 335i. Instead, they can choose from 4 or 5 different diesel or some less powerful gas engines. You can also choose what kind of features are available in your car. Things like a/c isn't a popular option in Germany as it never gets humid there.
Things like a/c isn't a popular option in Germany as it never gets humid there.
Really???? I agree with the rest but it does get quite humid here and almost all newer cars have AC even the most basic.
Also here the more Expensive models are nomaly leased by a company for their executives. Hardly anyone buys these cars due to tax advantages for leased company cars.
For driving the A9 fom Munich to a meeting in Berlin and back nothing better than a big Mecedes, fast, stable at high speed and comfortable.
Me I will stay with my Renault but as I work for MB (Lowly IT Tech) I do ride around in them a bit. We have the crappy old A class for work cars but I hope we get the awesome new sporty A class someday.
A modern car without a/c? That must be hell. A/C is a must - even here in Norway. Even the cheapest car got a/c these days. I would not buy a new car without heated seats either.
Really???? I agree with the rest but it does get quite humid here and almost all newer cars have AC even the most basic.
Also here the more Expensive models are nomaly leased by a company for their executives. Hardly anyone buys these cars due to tax advantages for leased company cars.
For driving the A9 fom Munich to a meeting in Berlin and back nothing better than a big Mecedes, fast, stable at high speed and comfortable.
Me I will stay with my Renault but as I work for MB (Lowly IT Tech) I do ride around in them a bit. We have the crappy old A class for work cars but I hope we get the awesome new sporty A class someday.
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Originally Posted by cmptrwlt
A modern car without a/c? That must be hell. A/C is a must - even here in Norway. Even the cheapest car got a/c these days. I would not buy a new car without heated seats either.
I think a/c's have improved in cars over time so I stand corrected. I'm not aware that it can get humid in Northern Europe so I will stand corrected as well.
My dad would've considered buying a BMW if they had more efficient engine choices, reasonable pricing and not feature heavy. Of course being that this is the US this will never happen because of image and materialism. And I agree with him.
German cars perform very well on the highway. Even the small ones - very stable at higher speeds. They are "drivers cars".
European styling is better than most american or japanese cars.
And the high end cars introduce technologies way before anyone else, which is what you are paying for, not necessarily reliability. And the buyers are the "gotta have it before anyone else does" crowd that is willing to pay for it.
Recent MB quality I have heard is not good (per a current owner). Those old MBs though - like 70s and 80s were built like tanks.
Very true, Tons of 70s and 80s MBs are still on the road in CA with insane amounts of miles. They last forever there because no road salt keeps the exteriors looking much better than other places. The easy way to tell a one owner vehicle of that vintage is to look for the originial blue plates.
They cost much more to repair, so it shows you are a person of means...
I read that the VW with one of worst records of realibility was the VW Jetta between model years 1999-2002, the 1.8T version. I have heard many nightmarish stories on astronomical repair bills along with recalls.
Sometimes I think the german automobile companies built reliable cars only for the german market lol. Only read the negative reliability of german cars in foreign forums. In Germany, german cars are very reliable. Never had much problems with them and most people I know. Whatever. The prestige of german cars is because of their performance, the technological innovations they always develop, the quality of the interior. The interior of japanese cars for example looks very plastic and does not have the same haptics of german cars. German cars in general use way higher quality of materials.
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