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I had a 2015 Kia Forte5 with a 6 speed manual, sounds like you're talking about the same/similar power plant. 201hp and 195 ft-lbs @ 1500-4500 rpms thanks to the twin scroll turbo. Having all the torque available at just 1500 rpms made for a great around town driving experience and it was able to crawl in 1st gear in traffic really well. Much better experience than say my old 200hp Acura RSX which had to be revved up to 7400rpm for full power.
But you have to admit, running that RSX at 6000 RPM made for a great soundtrack sometimes, didn't it? Come on, admit it.
I went from BMW's N-52 normally aspirated inline 6 to a N-20 turbo four and providing my observations.
The inline 6's response is smooth and silky, as expected in BMWs! I know what to expect and can modulate the power to move into traffic or change lanes in LA rushhour. When I mash on the gas, response is immediate but not neck snapping. The turbo-4 has a flat torque curve and makes for a faster car, but that power is only accessible when spooled up. Manual cars can be revved up into the power band, but difficult to do in autos. The turbos take time to spool up and throttle programming may retard initial power delivery to the wheels, to protect the drivetrain. That turbo and throttle lag, even in sport setting at stop-and-go traffic rpms, makes it hard for me to smoothly merge or change lanes without anticipating and hitting the gas a second earlier. It reminds me of the turbo Eclipses from the 90s or K-cars from the 80s.
My wife went from a MB M278 normally aspirated 5.5 V8 engine, to a BMW N63 turbo V8. Guess what, similar issue, albeit in more heavy SUVs, so overcoming the inertia of weight slows initial acceleration. The MB engine is less powerful, but balanced with a smooth and linear power delivery. The more powerful BMW V8 has some throttle/turbo lag which sometimes gives it a Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde attitude when shifting and accelerating, something not expected.
Having said that, turbo-4s from different companies exhibit differing personalities, especially the second generation models. My friends 2018 Audi with turbo-4 is much more smoother than my BMWs, and my coworkers MB V6-turbo in his C43 is a beast with just a blip of throttle delay before a tsunami of power delivery! Both cars have AWD and their drivetrains are more robust to handle the power.
I think the next generation of turbo-4 engines can overcome this, through electric assisted turbos that can pre-load pressure, or the use of an electric motor in hybrids, which is capable of immediate torque delivery.
I suspect that what some folks think is turbo lag is actually the result of the throttle-by-wire programming. I've had multiple turbo charged cars over the last few decades and am very familiar with what real turbo-lag feels like. Poor throttle-by-wire programming feels very similar. For example, my 2018 Silverado with a non-turbo 5.3 liter V8 had the worst off-idle throttle response I have ever experienced. It was downright dangerous and felt exactly like some early turbo cars - nothing, then a big hit later in the rev range. It turns out that my truck's issue was 2-fold: a flexy pedal mount and poor programming. The problem improved noticeably after the mount issue was addressed, but what fully resolved the problem was a plug-in device that fools the ECM into thinking the gas pedal is pressed further than it really is by sending a higher voltage. The difference is remarkable: the truck leaps forward when the gas pedal is pressed. It isn't any faster, but its much more responsive and linear. GM programmed the throttle-by-wire for fuel economy at the expense of responsiveness.
My tuned twin turbo V6 Taurus has instant throttle response (maybe too much) and zero turbo lag.
I just purchased a new BMW M550i (twin turbo V8) and it has an annoying off-idle lag that I'm almost certain is throttle programming, not turbo lag. I have a Dinan S1 tune on the way and am hoping it will solve the problem. If not, I'll try a device like I have in my truck.
I went from BMW's N-52 normally aspirated inline 6 to a N-20 turbo four and providing my observations.
The inline 6's response is smooth and silky, as expected in BMWs! I know what to expect and can modulate the power to move into traffic or change lanes in LA rushhour. When I mash on the gas, response is immediate but not neck snapping. The turbo-4 has a flat torque curve and makes for a faster car, but that power is only accessible when spooled up. Manual cars can be revved up into the power band, but difficult to do in autos. The turbos take time to spool up and throttle programming may retard initial power delivery to the wheels, to protect the drivetrain. That turbo and throttle lag, even in sport setting at stop-and-go traffic rpms, makes it hard for me to smoothly merge or change lanes without anticipating and hitting the gas a second earlier. It reminds me of the turbo Eclipses from the 90s or K-cars from the 80s.
My wife went from a MB M278 normally aspirated 5.5 V8 engine, to a BMW N63 turbo V8. Guess what, similar issue, albeit in more heavy SUVs, so overcoming the inertia of weight slows initial acceleration. The MB engine is less powerful, but balanced with a smooth and linear power delivery. The more powerful BMW V8 has some throttle/turbo lag which sometimes gives it a Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde attitude when shifting and accelerating, something not expected.
Having said that, turbo-4s from different companies exhibit differing personalities, especially the second generation models. My friends 2018 Audi with turbo-4 is much more smoother than my BMWs, and my coworkers MB V6-turbo in his C43 is a beast with just a blip of throttle delay before a tsunami of power delivery! Both cars have AWD and their drivetrains are more robust to handle the power.
I think the next generation of turbo-4 engines can overcome this, through electric assisted turbos that can pre-load pressure, or the use of an electric motor in hybrids, which is capable of immediate torque delivery.
It's all the throttle lag. Those fancy twin-scrolls spool incredibly quickly at almost no RPM/throttle input. But I know what you're talking about. The last BMW I drove with a turbo four was about as fast off the line as the Prius in Eco Mode. I've driven a BMW M2 as well and it's really interesting how the different modes alter the character of the car. In comfort mode there's a ton of throttle delay. In Sport+ it's there. You'll still miss the instantaneous linear power delivery if you're used to the straight sixes, but you won't pull any hair out.
Another thought I had... is this a CVT equipped car?
I find some automakers have the CVT programmed in such a way that the car just feels lethargic, even when accelerating adequately. (Particularly some lower HP Nissans).
It's all the throttle lag. Those fancy twin-scrolls spool incredibly quickly at almost no RPM/throttle input. But I know what you're talking about. The last BMW I drove with a turbo four was about as fast off the line as the Prius in Eco Mode. I've driven a BMW M2 as well and it's really interesting how the different modes alter the character of the car. In comfort mode there's a ton of throttle delay. In Sport+ it's there. You'll still miss the instantaneous linear power delivery if you're used to the straight sixes, but you won't pull any hair out.
Excellent point. Virtually all cars are now drive-by-wire. Older cars with actual throttle cables have a much more linear power progression and response as you push on the pedal. Virtually all drive-by-wire pedals are programmed to help foster fuel economy, not performance, hence the different modes on performance cars.
People here are focusing on how it "feels" not how the cars actually perform.
As others have stated it's not about the engine's lack or torque, but the perception that you feel as the driver. Yes it appears the cars are programmed to upshift sooner and experience throttle lag (not necessarily turbo lag). I suspect they are programmed this way for lower emiisions and to raise fuel economy output.
Except the majority of these 'tiny motors' absolutely destroy the majority of large common place engines from even just a decade ago while still returning solid fuel economy. I'd love to know what your definition of 'decent engine' is. Considering a four cylinder Camry out muscles Mustangs from 20 years ago, I'm not sure we are exactly going backwards.
It's amazing how great these engines are today. The 3.5L Ecoboost in my Ford Transit (6,000lbs van), Car and Driver tested at 7 sec 0-60, and for me gets 22mpg on the highway! The twin turbo doesn't have any turbo spikes, lag, or feel anything like the olden day turbos.
I think people look at extreme examples from the past and compare against mediocre cars today to get the idea that the past was better in any way (except aesthetics!)
Yeah these modern twin scroll turbos have turbo lag pretty much eliminated. Nothing at all like say an older Saab where you could count to 10 before it built full boost.
I like Ford's turbo engines. (Although, to be honest, I despise Ford thanks to a Lincoln MKC my wife had with the 2.0 turbo). The 2.0 is a very pleasant turbo to drive, and the 2.3 is rather impressive IMO. Good low end power, economy, etc.
I had a Subaru WRX years ago which was sluggish at low RPM, then felt like you got rammed in the rear by a truck around 3500 RPM when the boost kicked in! It definitely needed some rev's to enjoy any kind of power!
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