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Here in the Toronto I see tons of Mercedes and BMW sedans...people are buying them
like crazy, lots of Toyota sedans too.
Thank you!
Here in NYC same thing; in fact since this whole "sedans are dead" nonsense has been kicking around forum have made a point of noticing things on local roads/parked. As such am here to tell you at least in the NYC metropolitan area there is no shortage of late model to brand spanking new Lexus, Honda, Toyota, BMW, MB, Kia, Hyundai, Caddy, and whatever else sedans. Next up would be hatchbacks/wagons, but we're not on that right now.
Yesterday I stopped in at a local Ford dealer, together with my tape measurer. I measured the back of the Explorer, but it is a bit small. The Expedition would be fine for me, and the Expedition Max was longer than I wanted.
I asked to see the Expedition in its top-of-the-line trim level (Platinum, I think.)
Yesterday, the 5th of July, there were few potential customers. The sales rep took me for a drive in some generic sedan to go to the overflow lot where we would find the vehicle.
She drove up one aisle and down another ... repeat... repeat... row upon row of new sedans, trying to find the lone Expedition in the trim level I wanted.
As I looked at all the capital tied up in those sedans that apparently no one wants, it occurs to Ford's problem may be even larger than they are saying. It seems they need to really scrape a lot of assets off their balance sheet.
As for the Expedition? It turns out they didn't have one in the top of the line trim level after all. And I wasn't that impressed after test driving the vehicle in a different trim level.
Yeah, I think Ford's product planning over the past 15 years led them to a tough spot. I don't know if they will be able to get out of it.
Could it be that Japanese/Korean/Euro sedans aren't selling as much due to the fact that owners are still driving their perfectly fine previous models? I still see TONS of late 2000s early 2010s Altimas, Camrys and Accords on the road. Same with C-Class MB among others. The same can't be said for American sedans of the same years.
Heck, I drove around my 2008 Altima that I had in college for ages, well past the 300k mile mark, and only sold it because I got a really good deal on a 2014 some years ago, which I still drive around.
^^^^This. I see so many older model Civics, Accords, Altimas and Sentras on the road in the Pittsburgh area. They're reliable, fairly cheap and easy to repair as needed--what's not to like? Heck, my neighbor is still using a late nineties Sentra as a daily driver, my nephew's driving my Dad's 2006 Altima and I plan on driving my '05 Sentra until the mechanic tells me that she's no longer safe to drive. The next car will be another rice burner (Mazda so I can avoid CVTs which I loathe or I'd go with another Sentra or an Altima) , but it'll likely be a hatchback rather than a sedan since the trunk on the car that I want is smaller than that of my current ride.
The Fusion is a nice car, though. My mother has a 2012 that still looks, runs, and smells(!) like new. I've driven it to from Pittsburgh to Montreal and all around the city and local suburbs; it's handled well in both scenarios. It's a shame that it's being discontinued.
Yesterday I stopped in at a local Ford dealer, together with my tape measurer. I measured the back of the Explorer, but it is a bit small. The Expedition would be fine for me, and the Expedition Max was longer than I wanted.
I asked to see the Expedition in its top-of-the-line trim level (Platinum, I think.)
Yesterday, the 5th of July, there were few potential customers. The sales rep took me for a drive in some generic sedan to go to the overflow lot where we would find the vehicle.
She drove up one aisle and down another ... repeat... repeat... row upon row of new sedans, trying to find the lone Expedition in the trim level I wanted.
As I looked at all the capital tied up in those sedans that apparently no one wants, it occurs to Ford's problem may be even larger than they are saying. It seems they need to really scrape a lot of assets off their balance sheet.
As for the Expedition? It turns out they didn't have one in the top of the line trim level after all. And I wasn't that impressed after test driving the vehicle in a different trim level.
Yeah, I think Ford's product planning over the past 15 years led them to a tough spot. I don't know if they will be able to get out of it.
Once a car leaves the factory it is no longer Ford’s property, so Ford doesn’t have to worry about too many cars piling up on the balance sheet. Every car built is immediately sold to a dealer - and this transaction happens before the dealer even touches the car.
They can't make cars here cheap enough to turn a profit. That's the real reason. It has little to do with losing marketshare. They sell plenty of Focus but they aren't making much money after paying salaries here. Which is why Ford was supposed to move Focus production to China but Trump intervened but they chose instead to move to Mexico and now it will be sold only to Latin America and they are still planning to build factory in China and sell Focus there.
These decisions are made because of the labor costs especially how expensive healthcare benefits have become.
They can't make cars here cheap enough to turn a profit. That's the real reason. It has little to do with losing marketshare. They sell plenty of Focus but they aren't making much money after paying salaries here. Which is why Ford was supposed to move Focus production to China but Trump intervened but they chose instead to move to Mexico and now it will be sold only to Latin America and they are still planning to build factory in China and sell Focus there.
These decisions are made because of the labor costs especially how expensive healthcare benefits have become.
You’re on the right track, but labor costs - while important - are not nearly as important as the material cost to build the car. This is the primary issue - by far - with domestic sedans.
People think moving to China is all about labor cost and that couldn’t be further from the truth. Access to lower-cost suppliers is the real opportunity. It’s unfortunate but US suppliers are at a disadvantage to others when competing on a world stage. Some of that is due to higher labor costs, too, including healthcare and retirement benefits, but US suppliers also pay more for raw materials as well relative to their Asian competitors.
Last edited by iamweasel; 07-06-2018 at 08:04 PM..
Reason: Typo
Subaru, Nissan, and Kia may belong to larger entities but they are much more recognized as independent, standalone brands than Lincoln or any of the GM divisions like Cadillac or Buick. In fact, Subaru has been so successful that Fuji Heavy Industries now falls under the "Subaru Corporation" moniker.
Jeep does not stand on its own because it's not profitable enough to support itself, that's why they have "partnered" with (read: been owned by) several other bigger companies since 1970 and are currently part of FCA.
Because trucks and SUVs are extremely popular and cars are not I am no longer in the mainstream of American society. I feel that I can't relate to today's American people.
This is why Ford is not making sedans except the Mustang anymore read what sales of SUVs and pickups were for June of this year.
Ford Motor
The company recently announced plans to discontinue the Fusion, Fiesta, Taurus and Focus sedans within a few years.
Of those FOUR models, there is ONLY one that I would purchase as a fleet manager.
The Focus and Fiesta have been destroyed by the problems with the dual clutch transmissions. Like usual, it is a problem that has plagued Ford owners but is NOT perceived to be a problem with the Ford engineers.
The redesigned Taurus is very over priced for what you are buying. Personally, I have noted that the few that I have bought have had a lot of brake issues.
The Fusion is a pretty good vehicle.
I guess that Ford has thrown in the flag and conceded that they cannot compete with Toyota, Honda, and Hyundai and are leaving the business.
I don’t know if Ford CANT compete. I mean they are a global company with access to everything all the other automakers have access to...including engineers from all over the world. How hard is it to take a Honda Accord or Civic, deconstruct it and make something similar yet better. They can probably easily do it but by the time the bean counters work over the design for profitability, they figured it wasn’t worth it.
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