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60 year old driver, haven't had a ticket since 1988 absent a couple of photo radar tickets which were never served to me and thus, expired in the system and dropped out. I haven't had an at-fault accident since 2002. I don't claim to be a good driver but rather a cautious one whose years of motorcycle riding and bike riding has taught to anticipate someone's actions before they act.
A few days ago, I was on my way to the store and drove through a school zone. School is out at this location and there were only a few cars in the parking lot.
The signage in front of the school is obvious and clear and yes, I read it as I went by:
7/30 MEET THE TEACHER 5:30 - 7 PM
8/2 FIRST DAY OF SCHOOL
I've very much aware of this school. I drive this street and two other school zones on a regular basis and use my cruise control to insure I don't inadvertently speed through the zones. Once I retire, I want to teach school as a way of giving back to the community so I'm sensitive to my actions esp. around schools.
On the way back from the store, I hit the zone at my typical speed limit plus 5 mph. In my car, that's actually the indicated less 2-3 mph. I have digital video cameras front-and-back which registers my speed, the date, etc. I love having cameras on-board. There're as much of a deterrent as they are for recording stupid drivers. Like me. lol
When you enter the school zone, the signs are there, clear and obvious:
SPEED LIMIT
30 MPH
7AM - 4 PM
SCHOOL DAYS
Unfortunately, there was a portable radar unit parked in the shade off to the right side of the street and before I could say, "**** me to tears," I was flashed by it. My speed per my video and gps was 43 mph in what I thought was a 40 mph zone. Typically, photo radar units are set to trigger at +10 over the limit and most of the police seem to adhere to that. I'm not a slow old guy but I typically don't go over the limit plus 10 anytime.
So much for the 'school days' portion of the sign. I haven't received a citation in the mail but based on others who were previously flashed and got theirs in the mail, everyone is being tagged for speeding in a 30 mph area. Nothing about the school zone is mentioned in anyone's ticket.
I reached out to our local councilman and his team confirmed that they had quite a few complaints. Their response after a few days of checking with Phoenix PD:
HI Gerry, we did hear back from PD that the radar unit was deployed upon request because of the school-related summer activities at Monte Vista. We've asked them to make their signage around the area more obvious and clear so that drivers understand they are heading towards an active school zone and can adjust their speed appropriately. In your case, or anyone else who has already received a ticket from this unit, I would advise you to formally dispute the ticket.
Interestingly enough, there's a traffic light just beyond where I was flashed and it has a no-right-turn-on-red signage from 8 am to 4 pm and it states, Monday - Friday.
One of the folks who was ticketed is going to court on Monday. I'll go with her to observe the process. I've never witnessed or been in traffic court but was encouraged to go by a couple of PHX PD officers who I asked for advice.
Both of them seemed to think it'll be dismissed due to the signage stating 'school days'. One said the municipal judges aren't out to nail anyone often being conservative by ruling on the side of citizens rather than the police when there's a clear issue like this. They also said to obtain a copy of my driving record and take my video on a thumb drive.
If the person I accompany is read the riot act and fined, I'll probably do the online traffic school instead of fighting it. Of course, there are no guarantees that mine will be dismissed just because hers is but I'll be certain to get a copy of her records to take with me if I end up in court.
As for the activity in the school, there are reports that there is limited activity kind of like camp form 6:30 AM until 5:30 PM. My video shows there wasn't a child in sight and no traffic for 200 yards in front of me. I'd consider my speed to be reasonable and prudent under these circumstances but, I don't get a vote.
If I had actually zoned out and was speeding in an active school zone on a school day, I'd do the online traffic court without a second thought but in this case, it was a deliberate action on my part - 'school zone but school is closed for the summer' so 40 is ok.
Knowing what I know now, I'm be extremely mindful of the speeds in that area and I hope they change the sign. If I missed anything in my thought process or you want to call me names, go ahead. I'm old and you can't hurt my feelings. lol
Fight it. Have your video ready to show, make sure the video shows the signage both before and at the school zone. Worst case.. You lose.
I can make the argument that there's summer school, there's summer activities at the school.. My recommendation would be to treat it as an active school zone M-F from 7am to 4pm regardless of what time of year it is.
But, I think you have the stronger argument here that school was not in session and so long as you're respectful in your court appearance and the judge isn't just in a crappy mood.. It'll probably get dismissed.
I drove past the school by me yesterday that fortunately has flashing lights on the sign for when to obey the school speed limit and they were flashing - so I slowed down but wondered why. I then remember the school does have some summer school students, so it makes sense, even if it is much less crowded than a regular school day.
For your case, it is pretty vague that it was an actual "school day", so I would think you have a reasonable case to contest the ticket. The schools near me publish a school calendar, which would show no school this time. If yours does as well, I think you could bring in a copy of the school calendar, the verbiage on the sign, the extra verbiage on the sign that lists 8/2 as the first day of school, as well as the normal speed limit being 40 and with that only a serious a$$ of a judge would uphold the charge.
I would not rely (or probably would not even mention) the "wasn't a child in sight" argument or how you felt the speed was. The facts are, the sign said 'school day's the school calendar said it wasn't a school day.
Maybe your council can do like our area and get the flashing lights installed....they leave no ambiguity for us, except for the once in a while odd time they flash (like on new years day when we all know there is no school, but there is no excuse for not slowing down anyway).
Some cities require a "Photo Radar Ahead" warning sign be posted when a unit is active. Does Phoenix, and if so, was there one ?
Good question. I drive through another school zone several weeks ago when school was in session and the limit drops to 15 mph during the school year. A photo radar van was sitting there and while my speed was fine, I went back and checked for signage as you described.
It was there.
In the case above, there was no signage but per ARS, signage does not have to be posted when the limit is 40 mph or less. That begs the question on why it was posted in the other school zone! No clue.
Fight it. Have your video ready to show, make sure the video shows the signage both before and at the school zone. Worst case.. You lose.
I can make the argument that there's summer school, there's summer activities at the school.. My recommendation would be to treat it as an active school zone M-F from 7am to 4pm regardless of what time of year it is.
But, I think you have the stronger argument here that school was not in session and so long as you're respectful in your court appearance and the judge isn't just in a crappy mood.. It'll probably get dismissed.
That’s exactly my thoughts also. Go in, be calm, be respectful, don’t whine, no drama, etc. Thanks!
I drove past the school by me yesterday that fortunately has flashing lights on the sign for when to obey the school speed limit and they were flashing - so I slowed down but wondered why. I then remember the school does have some summer school students, so it makes sense, even if it is much less crowded than a regular school day.
For your case, it is pretty vague that it was an actual "school day", so I would think you have a reasonable case to contest the ticket. The schools near me publish a school calendar, which would show no school this time. If yours does as well, I think you could bring in a copy of the school calendar, the verbiage on the sign, the extra verbiage on the sign that lists 8/2 as the first day of school, as well as the normal speed limit being 40 and with that only a serious a$$ of a judge would uphold the charge.
I would not rely (or probably would not even mention) the "wasn't a child in sight" argument or how you felt the speed was. The facts are, the sign said 'school day's the school calendar said it wasn't a school day.
Maybe your council can do like our area and get the flashing lights installed....they leave no ambiguity for us, except for the once in a while odd time they flash (like on new years day when we all know there is no school, but there is no excuse for not slowing down anyway).
Good points. I’ll not mention “not a child in sight”. I’d be happy with the change from “SCHOOL DAYS” to something like “Mon - Fri.” Flashing lights would be great but signs work for me!
It's not a school day. If you get a ticket do some legal research on the definition, then fight it.
Did that also. The only mention of “school days” in the ARS (Arizona revised statutes) is in the definition of the school year and that 180 days of instruction are required. I’ve made a note of that law and will reference it along the lines of, “If there are 180 days of instruction, how is a citizen to know which of the other days are considered school days?” and then mention that the sign should read “ Mon - Fri” to be clearer.
Hope the judge is agreeable.
Oh....fwiw, I have to judge employees daily in my line of work. If the facts support that you presented false information and then lied to cover your tracks, you’ll likely lose your job but as I tell every employee and manager, “a good explanation always works.” Just be truthful and honest. As we learned with Nixon, it’s not the crime, it’s the coverup.
I fight every ticket. Sometimes the cop doesn't show up, or there's a technicality that causes the judge to throw out the ticket, or the offense is so minor that they offer a slap on the wrist (like watching a movie) instead. Convictions, and only convictions, cause your insurance to go up.
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