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Old 07-25-2018, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Lee County, NC
2,040 posts, read 647,167 times
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Boxy enough for ya?

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Old 07-26-2018, 06:13 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
2,983 posts, read 1,578,331 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
Correct seems people are grouping SUVís and CUVís into the same group, there totally different all full size SUVís have a full ladder truck frame and rear wheel drive all CUVís are all unibody and front wheel drive most full size SUVís are still boxy looking.


Full size SUVs have frames, but mid size often didn't. For example, Jeep Cherokees from the '80s and '90s didn't.


These were most certainly SUVs but they were unit construction:





Having a separate frame wasn't what defined an SUV. As I explained, the TERM SUV was coined by Ford for the Explorer to emphasize it's sporting nature (sporting being defined as outdoor sports, not motorsports). and everyone jumped on the bandwagon. Up to that point all of these vehicles were simply called larger wagons. Some based on trucks, some not.
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Old 07-26-2018, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
4,207 posts, read 1,255,501 times
Reputation: 3403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffer E38 View Post
Full size SUVs have frames, but mid size often didn't. For example, Jeep Cherokees from the '80s and '90s didn't.


These were most certainly SUVs but they were unit construction:





Having a separate frame wasn't what defined an SUV. As I explained, the TERM SUV was coined by Ford for the Explorer to emphasize it's sporting nature (sporting being defined as outdoor sports, not motorsports). and everyone jumped on the bandwagon. Up to that point all of these vehicles were simply called larger wagons. Some based on trucks, some not.
But the smaller Suvs were truck frame the explorer was a Ranger truck frame and the S-10 Blazer or the S-10 jimmy were S-10 pickup frame. Now the Explorer is a unibody design so I call it a CUV. All larger Suvs are truck based truck frame design.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:11 AM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
2,983 posts, read 1,578,331 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
But the smaller Suvs were truck frame the explorer was a Ranger truck frame and the S-10 Blazer or the S-10 jimmy were S-10 pickup frame. Now the Explorer is a unibody design so I call it a CUV. All larger Suvs are truck based truck frame design.

Again, having a frame didn't make something an SUV. The term SUV was coined by Ford for the Explorer. It happened to be BOF at the time, but that wasn't what made it an SUV. Just like the XJ was an SUV by type, even though it wasn't called that at the time (and the CUV term didn't exist then). And tow capacity wasn't the defining characteristic, either, as the Suburban wasn't called an SUV at the time (it was a large station wagon according to GM advertising), but it had excellent tow capacity and the Explorer didn't.


Sport Utility Vehicle, doesn't say "truck frame vehicle." At the time, most happened to be that, just like full size station wagons had frames for the longest time, but you wouldn't say a station wagon needs BOF construction to be called a station wagon, right?


SUV only meant outdoorsy, rugged, sport-centric utility vehicle, as opposed to a minivan or typical station wagon, both of which were not as offroad capable. The term SUV didn't even exist until the late '80s, even though the kind of vehicle it was applied to had existed since at least the '50s.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:34 AM
 
1,568 posts, read 718,719 times
Reputation: 1676
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyRider View Post
It's popular to blame everything on safety and gas mileage. Box oo no box has nothing to do with either. Matter of fact, those sloped rears are terrible for headroom.

actually it does, a box does not cut through the air as easily, the less aerodynamic the harder the engine has to work to push your vehicle from point A to point B and the more fuel burned in doing so.
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Old 07-26-2018, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,997 posts, read 15,994,517 times
Reputation: 12610
Quote:
Originally Posted by papilgee4evaeva View Post
We talking actual SUVs or crossovers here?
This. Most SUVs are just cars on stilts. That's what most people want, which isn't surprising. They handle better and get better mileage, same as say a Honda Ridgeline does. The tradeoff is less of the U.
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Vallejo
13,997 posts, read 15,994,517 times
Reputation: 12610
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffer E38 View Post
Again, having a frame didn't make something an SUV. The term SUV was coined by Ford for the Explorer. It happened to be BOF at the time, but that wasn't what made it an SUV. Just like the XJ was an SUV by type, even though it wasn't called that at the time (and the CUV term didn't exist then). And tow capacity wasn't the defining characteristic, either, as the Suburban wasn't called an SUV at the time (it was a large station wagon according to GM advertising), but it had excellent tow capacity and the Explorer didn't.


Sport Utility Vehicle, doesn't say "truck frame vehicle." At the time, most happened to be that, just like full size station wagons had frames for the longest time, but you wouldn't say a station wagon needs BOF construction to be called a station wagon, right?


SUV only meant outdoorsy, rugged, sport-centric utility vehicle, as opposed to a minivan or typical station wagon, both of which were not as offroad capable. The term SUV didn't even exist until the late '80s, even though the kind of vehicle it was applied to had existed since at least the '50s.
SUV is just marketing speak. As you say, the concept existed long before the name. In gross terms it's simply a station wagon body on a pickup truck frame. Take the Wagoneer versus the Cherokee. The Wagoneer had, for the time, competitive tow/payload with a light duty pickup like the contemporaneous F-100/F-150. The Grand Cherokee does not.

They came in different sizes. Something like a Bronco or a 4Runner had lower towing capacities than a Suburban as well, but they weren't the same size as a Suburban. Similar in size to the now unibody trucks like the Ridgeline or Colorado rather than a Silverado or F-150. Smaller engine, less towing.

Supposedly there's a new Ford Bronco and Wagoneer coming. It may be a niche market, but there's still enough apparent demand for SUVs as opposed to CUVs. Again, that's just marketing terms. We'll wait and see if either do come to market but there might be some room for them. Even dropping the V8 for a lighter V6 the new Explorer in 4x4 trim has significantly less payload than the older SUV-based V8 4x4 explorer. Assuming they do get built the Grand Cherokee and Explorer will outsell them handily but there's enough demand that at least they're contemplating building them.
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Old 07-26-2018, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
4,207 posts, read 1,255,501 times
Reputation: 3403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiffer E38 View Post
Again, having a frame didn't make something an SUV. The term SUV was coined by Ford for the Explorer. It happened to be BOF at the time, but that wasn't what made it an SUV. Just like the XJ was an SUV by type, even though it wasn't called that at the time (and the CUV term didn't exist then). And tow capacity wasn't the defining characteristic, either, as the Suburban wasn't called an SUV at the time (it was a large station wagon according to GM advertising), but it had excellent tow capacity and the Explorer didn't.


Sport Utility Vehicle, doesn't say "truck frame vehicle." At the time, most happened to be that, just like full size station wagons had frames for the longest time, but you wouldn't say a station wagon needs BOF construction to be called a station wagon, right?


SUV only meant outdoorsy, rugged, sport-centric utility vehicle, as opposed to a minivan or typical station wagon, both of which were not as offroad capable. The term SUV didn't even exist until the late '80s, even though the kind of vehicle it was applied to had existed since at least the '50s.
Say what you want but a true automotive person knows the difference between the two and when I worked on the assembly line building large SUVs in the late 70’s we were call them SUVs then so you’re dates are wrong on when the were called SUVs. This is what our plant was making now this is a SUV.


why don't SUVs look like SUVs anymore?-fe74c3ad-266e-4d9f-b65e-43b55d86535e.jpeg
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Pikesville, MD
2,983 posts, read 1,578,331 times
Reputation: 4552
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
Say what you want but a true automotive person knows the difference between the two and when I worked on the assembly line building large SUVs in the late 70ís we were call them SUVs then so youíre dates are wrong on when the were called SUVs. This is what our plant was making now this is a SUV.


Attachment 200399




They were still wagons in the late '70s:








Or 4 Wheelers:








It's said that Jeep may have invented the term for the Cherokee, but I can't find any proof of that. Earliest I saw it used was the late '80s on the Explorer. Either way it's a marketing term, not a construction term. BOF construction does not make it an SUV any more than BOF construction makes a car a station wagon or sedan.
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Old 08-07-2018, 04:51 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
29,722 posts, read 16,475,984 times
Reputation: 22337
Ya'll! I found a boxy SUV - Toyota 4Runner. AND it's super tall - I tower over all the other vehicles on the road! So fun!
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