Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Two main reasons that diesel cars never really caught on in the U.S.:
1. NOx regulations are more restrictive here than in Europe. More difficult and expensive to get good performance out of an engine that will pass U.S. standards. So difficult that Volkswagen had to cheat Though to be fair, heavy truck engine manufacturers were caught doing much the same thing back in the 90's.
2. U.S. auto makers produced some absolute junk when they tried to introduce light duty diesels in the 80's. Between the poor performance and even worse reliability, most Americans lost interest and never got it back.
Now personally I was a diesel mechanic for quite a long time, and I'd like to have a diesel vehicle. But they're just not practical. Cost more to buy, cost more to maintain... and fuel savings in most cases aren't that significant when you factor in the higher price of diesel.
Granted if you're towing a trailer all day long every day... a diesel pickup is the way to go. And *some* of the diesel volkswagens can get great fuel economy and last a long time (though both of those are less true as time goes own and emissions standards tighten more). But except for those specialty cases, a gas engine is cheaper, more reliable, and has better performance. I haven't seen any reason to bother with small diesels.
Two main reasons that diesel cars never really caught on in the U.S.:
1. NOx regulations are more restrictive here than in Europe. More difficult and expensive to get good performance out of an engine that will pass U.S. standards. So difficult that Volkswagen had to cheat Though to be fair, heavy truck engine manufacturers were caught doing much the same thing back in the 90's.
2. U.S. auto makers produced some absolute junk when they tried to introduce light duty diesels in the 80's. Between the poor performance and even worse reliability, most Americans lost interest and never got it back.
Now personally I was a diesel mechanic for quite a long time, and I'd like to have a diesel vehicle. But they're just not practical. Cost more to buy, cost more to maintain... and fuel savings in most cases aren't that significant when you factor in the higher price of diesel.
Granted if you're towing a trailer all day long every day... a diesel pickup is the way to go. And *some* of the diesel volkswagens can get great fuel economy and last a long time (though both of those are less true as time goes own and emissions standards tighten more). But except for those specialty cases, a gas engine is cheaper, more reliable, and has better performance. I haven't seen any reason to bother with small diesels.
Ah, the GM 350 Diesel!
I'd like to see a PHEV with a diesel generator, just to see how it would perform. My limited electronics and physics experience would lead me to believe the low end torque of a diesel motor could turn a higher-rated inverter than a gasoline engine could - maintaining a baseline MPG - and thus run for less hours than a gasoline setup when engaging to respond to demand.
Recently I checked out a few articles on gas vs diesel because of a random brain thought. Diesel engines mostly come in trucks, but I'm not that big into them due to the loss in mpg for obvious reasons. Plus I don't tow anything. A sedan is what I like, but Volkswagen seems to be the only manufacturer to produce a diesel sedan in the states (that I know of). What gives? I wish there was a larger market for them. I drive a Honda 4 cylinder, gas mileage is good but not great. No complaints, but I think I would like to try something different in the future. I'm really in it for the MPG. I'm always driving around. Is it the emissions that's a big issue? Or the repairs?
1. cost - diesels are more costly to buy
2. Power - some like the strong surge of the diesel and some prefer the power delivery of a gas motor
3. Diesel is more expensive and less available
4. emissions - the number of diesels in europe has worsened their air quality
I see no need for a diesel unless you are pulling a heavy load and need the torque.
Back in 1997 in the UK I worked for a company that had 7 Toyota Carine E's all with over 100k on them, but they had a gearbox issue where they would start jumping out of 5th gear and a few hundred miles later you could not lean on the gear lever hard enough to hold it in anymore lol.
I tested a Vauxhall Astra wagon "1.7 Tdi Intercooler" for a week and on one occasion was zipping up the M23 minding my own business when I saw a blue flash from behind....looked around and noticed I was passing everything and looked at the speedo, was doing 100MPH. Slowed it down and got a finger wagged at me by the cop. Those Isuzu engines were well nice.
Moving forward many years I ended up with a Touareg TDi here in the USA, fantastic vehicle but too many software issues that were silly. Then the emissions scandal hit....only vehicle I ever made money on lol. Back to Toyota for me....Sienna with 123k miles as of today. Fuel ***** but super reliable and practical.
You know, I should not say that, 24MPG round trip Florida to Massachusetts and it made exactly no difference empty or loaded down 2.5" lol
Just came back from Costa Rica, diesel Toyota's including Corollas everywhere
I'd like to see a PHEV with a diesel generator, just to see how it would perform. My limited electronics and physics experience would lead me to believe the low end torque of a diesel motor could turn a higher-rated inverter than a gasoline engine could - maintaining a baseline MPG - and thus run for less hours than a gasoline setup when engaging to respond to demand.
Generator design can be optimized for whatever RPM range you want- particularly if we're talking about a DC generator. So the efficiency gain going from gas to diesel would be basically the difference between say a volkswagen Jetta and a Honda Civic.
And in theory you could build a diesel Prius and it'd be crazy efficient. But in practice, meeting current NOx emissions standards would make the diesel quite a bit more complicated and less reliable... while somewhat reducing potential gains.
Basically the same problem that all diesels face right now. And with the improvements being made to gas engine design (direct injection, Atkinson cycle, variable compression ratio), the fuel efficiency advantage of diesels is being chipped away at.
With current trends continuing in these directions, at some point diesels will no longer be practical for light duty applications. IMO we're already at that point, except for some enthusiast markets.
as one who owned, drove, and maintained many diesel cars for decades, I and my customers appreciated the fuel economy, durability, and varying levels of performance … ranging from sloooow to turbodiesel pretty good … through the years.
when diesel fuel was less expensive than gasoline and the cost of diesel emission compliance nominal , for those of us who drove a lot of miles and kept cars for a longer than average life cycle, the benefits could be significant.
but with the improvements to gasoline cars for fuel economy and the disparity in the cost of fuel today don't favor diesel cars now.
"strong surge and torque" has nothing to do with diesel, just turbo chargers. Ask Rabbit and 300D drivers !!!!
Let's be very specific about that: MB 300D's … naturally aspirated … were among the biggest t*rds that 'benz ever foisted on the USA marketplace (IMO, worse, yes … than a 180D).
the later model 300Dt(urbo), OTOH, was a whole 'nother experience.
As well, I had a number of clients with GWagen's powered with naturally aspirated 300D motors. They could not maintain 55 mph on level ground at 5,000' elevation. Worse still, the boys in SantaFe were bringing in 240D powered GWagen's. I had one customer, a real estate agent in Denver, who wanted me to add air conditioning to that vehicle. We did, and between the additional weight and the HP demand of the compressor, turned it into a 45 mph struggle with him and a couple of passengers. It was a total fiasco with him rowing through the gears to show properties around town with his vanity vehicle. Got traded for a Excursion very quickly … and the Excursion got better fuel economy, too.
Most diesel buyers (and car buyers in general) simply do not keep the vehicles long enough to warrant the premium for a diesel option, the long term maintenance and fuel costs. Not to mention new diesels are damn expensive to buy and maintain. I have older diesels. I wouldn’t buy a new diesel truck today. The costs are prohibitive (60,000 dollars or more) not to mention repairs out of warranty are more expensive.
as one who owned, drove, and maintained many diesel cars for decades, I and my customers appreciated the fuel economy, durability, and varying levels of performance … ranging from sloooow to turbodiesel pretty good … through the years.
when diesel fuel was less expensive than gasoline and the cost of diesel emission compliance nominal , for those of us who drove a lot of miles and kept cars for a longer than average life cycle, the benefits could be significant.
but with the improvements to gasoline cars for fuel economy and the disparity in the cost of fuel today don't favor diesel cars now.
From what I've heard from diesel (car and SUV) owners that I've talked to personally, the sticker MPG on diesel autos is VERY conservative. If it weren't for word getting around about this, I don't think they'd be nearly as popular if they "only" performed as advertised.
The low-end torque is something that drivers can feel taking off from every stop light, and is enjoyable to even non-enthusiasts. It just feels more robust. I'd love to import a MB E 420 CDI, or better yet, an Audi SQ7 with the 6.0L V12 diesel. The sound from inside the cabin upon acceleration is magnificent, almost "chewy".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Though to be fair, heavy truck engine manufacturers were caught doing much the same thing back in the 90's.
