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No, they are performance cars and dual clutch automatics provide the best performance. And traditional torque converter automatics are just about their equal now, as well. All of them are faster than manuals, so manuals are for masochists who THINK they are race car drivers.
My BMW 740i's stock automatic had 180k miles on it when I sold it last week, and still shifted and drove just fine. It wasn't available with a manual in stock form, even in Europe. Automatics can last just as long as manuals. (I know a number of these cars with over 300k miles on them now, on their stock automatics). They perform as well, and hold their value better.
Out of 130 cars I've owned in the last 40 years, the vast majority have been manuals. But my most fun cars and my most powerful have happened to have automatics. I don't choose cars based on what method of gearchanging they have, only on overall ability.
Using your logic, why do we even but automatics, when there are Teslas that drive themselves?
You have every right to drive automatic performance cars and be happy in them.
BTW, the 740i was available in manual from at least 1994 to 1998 (according to the only google search I clicked on). If it was not available during later years, it's because the model changed or it was meant for enthusiasts.
Using your logic, why do we even but automatics, when there are Teslas that drive themselves?
You have every right to drive automatic performance cars and be happy in them.
BTW, the 740i was available in manual from at least 1994 to 1998 (according to the only google search I clicked on). If it was not available during later years, it's because the model changed or it was meant for enthusiasts.
The 740i didn't have a manual in the E38 bodystyle ('95-01). The Euro only 6 cyl version (728i) was available with a manual, in order to allow the car to even move under it's own power. But the V8 and V12 cars were all automatic. Oh, and the Euro only 6 cyl diesel also had a manual option. Very rare to find them.
Any 740i cars you find with a manual have been converted using 5 series parts.
I too am improbably thinking of getting a manual for my next car. There's nothing logical in my feelings except that I miss shifting and having more positive control over the car.
I miss getting up to speed on a freeway in 3rd gear, with no fumbling around by a computer controlled slushbox trying to interpret my throttle settings.
Yeah, automatics are as good as they've ever been and are more efficient and performance oriented. They're logically a better choice.
But man, that feeling as the tach sweeps over the top and it's 100% under your control...
I went to pick out a VW Tiguan. Dealer talked me into test driving a Golf R. Well, all I can think about is how much fun that car was. The next morning my left knee was hurting. I've never had knee problems.
I really want a stick shift now. I've now picked out a VW Alltrack. (I'm a station wagon lover.)
Questions:
1) Will the knee issue go away after a little while?
2) Would you buy a manual car at 58?
Two notes: I don't really need a new car. My current car is 5 years old with only 30K miles. I'll probably keep it.
NO!!! Not if your knee was hurting after driving the manual. And just wait until you have low back pain issues or disc issues, and you really need an automatic.
I love driving a manual transmission, but I've finally conceded that my daily driver needs to be an automatic. If this were to be just an extra toy car for you, sure, but not as your daily transportation.
Perhaps it’s unavoidable that threads such as this, devolve into debates about manual vs. automatic for performance-purposes. This is to say, not subjective claim of driving-feel, but actual quantifiable performance. And perhaps just as unavoidably, it’s pointed out that some of the most storied and impressive sporting-cars have automatics of some form, or at least, dispense with the traditional clutch-coupled manual.
It first should be noted that car manufacturers respond to market forces. Engineers may love to build machines that tickle their mechanical fancies, but if they wish to keep their jobs, they must corral their urges and do what management tells them.
If some exotic-car manufacturer finds that its manual-transmission offerings are rarely bought, but automatics are snapped up, it makes sense to completely cancel the manuals. It’s just not cost-effective to cater to a small and declining segment of their customer-base. This is one reason why – totally apart from anything to do with performance! – many high-end sports cars are only available with automatics.
Second, the higher the power and torque level, the harder it is to engineer a smooth, easily-shifting manual transmission. Automatics scale better. An automatic for 1000 ft-lb of torque is a natural outgrowth for one that was bolted behind a 200 ft-lb engine. Such scaling simply does not work for a manual. As cars get more powerful, the engineering favors the automatic, with its various electromechanical and hydraulic assists.
Third, in a performance car, the automatic is tuned for performance: shift-points, shift-style, speed and delay and so forth. For an economy car, or even one of middling performance aspirations, this isn’t the case. Its automatic is tuned for efficiency, safety, reliability, quietness, low-maintenance, minimal liability. The performance-car may admit various driver-accessible (or at least dealer-accessible) tuning aides; the economy-car will not. It’s difficult, if not impossible, to un-tune it form its economy-programming, making it raucous and raw. In a performance-car, the automatic likely knows that when the driver mashes the throttle, it’s time to downshift. An economy car, or even a luxury-cruiser type of car, would filter out such rapid motion of the pedal, resulting in an irritating delay. This is why, perhaps paradoxically, it is more important to have a manual in a 100-hp commuter sedan, than a 500-hp grand-tourer.
Finally, there’s the question of gear-shifting efficiency, comparing the human and the machine. Of course the machine is faster! For a car that does 0-60 in 3s, too much time would be lost by the human shifting gears. It is more important to change gears faster, than to necessarily be in the right gear in the right rpm range. It is also harder to feather the clutch off of the line, for deft balance between spinning the tires and bogging the engine. Consistency is harder to achieve. This is one reason why competitive drag-cars are generally automatics. But for a car that does 0-60 in 12s, none of this matters. A human driver can maximize the launch (such as it is!) by pre-revving the engine to beyond its torque peak, then dumping the clutch. If it takes 0.3s to shift from one gear to another, that doesn’t matter over a 12s run; what’s more important is to be in the right gear for the right range of rpm. It’s more important to be wise, than to be fast.
By way of cautionary example, here’s what happened with my sports-car project. It is an old Datsun 240Z, with a Chevrolet big-block (bored to 461 cubic inches) engine, some chassis mods, etc. Zealously insisting on a manual, I installed a Doug Nash 5-speed. At the time, this was one of the few manual offerings with the requisite torque-capacity. Unfortunately, this transmission had too many gears, spaced too closely. Gear-changes were notchy and stiff. Time was lost in every gear-change, and because of the broad torque curve, it would have been better to launch the car in second gear, and immediately shift to fifth. A better choice would have been a “built” version of an old GM automatic transmission, somewhat whimsically called the “powerglide”. It is a 2-speed automatic, famous for its robustness and light weight. But had I installed a less powerful engine, or one with peaky torque-curve, a manual would still have been better.
So, yes, there’s a bevy of arguments for why in some cases automatics are more conducive to higher performance. But that still begs the question: wouldn’t it be better if we had more choices – even if some those choices, by some measures, were suboptimal?
Having choices is good. Acting superior for making that choice? Not so much. But unfortunately, we've heard the superior attitude from the manual trans forever fans that it leaves a sour taste every time we hear it, and there's some pushback to that attitude. My grandma could and did drive manual transmissions. Nothing special or superior about it.
There are good and bad manual transmissions. There are good and bad autoboxes, too. There are cars that absolutely need a manual to get the most out of, and there are cars that are not improved by having one.
The 740i didn't have a manual in the E38 bodystyle ('95-01). The Euro only 6 cyl version (728i) was available with a manual, in order to allow the car to even move under it's own power. But the V8 and V12 cars were all automatic. Oh, and the Euro only 6 cyl diesel also had a manual option. Very rare to find them.
Any 740i cars you find with a manual have been converted using 5 series parts.
What? There was a 728!?!? And I thought the 318 was a dog...
I went to pick out a VW Tiguan. Dealer talked me into test driving a Golf R. Well, all I can think about is how much fun that car was. The next morning my left knee was hurting. I've never had knee problems.
I really want a stick shift now. I've now picked out a VW Alltrack. (I'm a station wagon lover.)
Questions:
1) Will the knee issue go away after a little while?
2) Would you buy a manual car at 58?
Two notes: I don't really need a new car. My current car is 5 years old with only 30K miles. I'll probably keep it.
I am answering your question as a 51-year-old:
1) No, the knee issue will only get worse over time.
2) I won't buy a manual at 51, so I think you know what my answer is.
P.S. - I'm also a fellow wagon lover and also own a VW Alltrack SEL. Trust me, if you get the DSG, you'll never regret it. I love my Alltrack and I bet you'll love yours, too.
P.P.S. - I also own a 2018 Tiguan SEL Premium and love it as well for different reasons. Either way, you won't go wrong.
Not crazy at all. It's all a matter of preference. My 68 year old mother just bought a manual Mazda6 a few years ago and she drives in congested LA/OC traffic. She needed a new car after her 97 Nissan Maxima (manual) was rear-ended. I test drove the automatic version of the Mazda6 and shouldn't stand the incessant up-shifting. It was thought the car was programmed to never rev over 2,000 rpm; it just felt anemic under normal driving conditions.
Anyways, as someone who typically buys 4 year old used cars with ~80K miles on them, I would say keep your car and stay as far way from the Tiguan as you can. VWs are notorious unreliable, though I probably have the outlier here. I've got a 2001 VW Golf TDI with 300K miles and have had only a handful of issues (bad idler pulley bearing, seal leak on the fuel injection pump, worn out tie-rod end, broken finger on the clutch pressure plate, & bad relay 109). If you're looking for a fun manual, perhaps you should look into a roadster. A used Miata, S2000, or BMW Z4 would probably be more reliable and a lot more fun than a VW.
Pure poppycock.
Many of us own VWs (including the new Tiguan) and have found them to be very reliable.
Many of us own VWs (including the new Tiguan) and have found them to be very reliable.
Both of yours are pretty new. Wait until they're out of warranty and become money pits. I always pass on the extended warranty, but I would never buy a European brand without one. The only European vehicle I've ever owned was a 1973 model that I sold in 1974. I seriously doubt there will ever be another one in my garage.
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