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Old 10-22-2018, 05:25 PM
 
107 posts, read 26,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdelena View Post
Diesel is used for good reason...
'Energy density and the cost, weight, and size of onboard energy storage are important characteristics of fuels for transportation. Fuels that require large, heavy, or expensive storage can reduce the space available to convey people and freight, weigh down a vehicle (making it operate less efficiently), or make it too costly to operate, even after taking account of cheaper fuels. Compared to gasoline and diesel, other options may have more energy per unit weight, but none have more energy per unit volume.'
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=9991#
Is anyone working on synthetic fuels, using an element to bind the hydrogen molecules to until they can be oxygenated, the same way Nature has done with hydrocarbons? Since pure H2 gas is problematic for storage and delivery, if a "binder" element could be developed, it may solve a lot of the problems. Obviously, there would be an energy penalty in doing the binding and unbinding, and the ultimate power source would still have to be renewable or nuclear in nature - but it would also offer the same benefits in energy density vs. electric batteries that is provided with traditional hydrocarbons. Or is this pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking? Dang carbon!
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Old 10-22-2018, 06:10 PM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,773 posts, read 37,441,293 times
Reputation: 20763
HHV (Hydraulic Hybrid) Very good / fitting technology for Heavy trucks. Most research has been in Australia (for last 20+ yrs)

augmented by non-carbon diesel (synthetic) Very ez to make... diesel engines are very receptive to all kinds of fuel sources (Stick with the engines, and find better fuel source)

Algae based? EZ to grow algae!
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Old 10-22-2018, 07:22 PM
 
6,899 posts, read 2,558,031 times
Reputation: 4691
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvetters63 View Post
In order to have the requisite amount to power a car or bus, the container has to be a bit smaller than a typical Zeppelin AND hold enough hydrogen to provide the quantity needed for the fuel cell to last more than 5 miles. That means pressurization and large amounts thereof, which makes it vastly more complex and dangerous than the hydrogen in a Zeppelin. Unless you thin that a Zeppelin sized car is the proper way to exist...

You have to either store hydrogen as a pressurized gas at up to 10,000psi OR as a liquid (below -232 degrees) https://worthingtonindustries.com/Pr...gen-Fuel-Tanks

Both are problematic for personal vehicle use. (how many people do you want handling a 10,000psi filler system?)
Honestly I think that bridge has already been crossed. I donít necessarily agree itís the best application for a small car, but Toyota has already doing it so apparently it can be done.
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Old 10-22-2018, 11:47 PM
 
30,877 posts, read 24,200,485 times
Reputation: 17769
Quote:
Originally Posted by engineman View Post
The "electric" in diesel electric trains, ships, etc is simply in lieu of a mechanical transmission/clutch. The power comes from the diesel engine.

as has been noted, there is no direct connection between the diesel engine and the wheels on a diesel/electric engine unit. the diesel engine just runs a huge generator to power the wheels, as well as every other system on a train.



Quote:
Some department stores a century ago used electric delivery trucks. They were eventually replace by gas and diesels for overall efficiency reasons. Part of this was the move to suburbia which made distances greater.

very true.



Quote:
Hydrogen requires careful handling. Think Hindenburg.

not really. like any other gas, hydrogen is easily stored in large or small cylinders. the problem is that until recently those cylinders were made of heavy steel. now they can be made from either fiberglass or carbon fiber. the only real issue with the high pressure cylinders now is that they have to be inspected every five years and recertified.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cvetters63 View Post
Hydrogen is the smallest atom in the universe and can't be easily stored in materials made up of larger atoms, it slips right out. Diesel is not as flammable, and it doesn't have to be stored under pressure, either, unlike hydrogen.
well yes and no. yes it needs to be stored under high pressure, no it doesnt leak out like you think it does.[/quote]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
Is anyone working on synthetic fuels, using an element to bind the hydrogen molecules to until they can be oxygenated, the same way Nature has done with hydrocarbons? Since pure H2 gas is problematic for storage and delivery, if a "binder" element could be developed, it may solve a lot of the problems. Obviously, there would be an energy penalty in doing the binding and unbinding, and the ultimate power source would still have to be renewable or nuclear in nature - but it would also offer the same benefits in energy density vs. electric batteries that is provided with traditional hydrocarbons. Or is this pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking? Dang carbon!

yes, people are constantly working on synthetic fuels, they have been for quite some time in fact. germany during world war two was heavy into synthetic fuels to replace the oil it didnt have. they started with coal as a base stock and used liquefaction to process the coal into a usable fuel for their war machines.


there are also fuels being made from algae as well. one by product of playing with algae is that when it dies, it turns into crude oil. the experimentation is being done here in arizona by APS. the problem is that to make good use of the effort, there needs to be huge farms for algae production, and we dont have enough land area at the moment.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,008 posts, read 1,468,650 times
Reputation: 5403
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
Semi truck drivers keep America going if it wasn’t for semi truck you would not have food in your local grocery store, or medical supplies for local hospitals. Semi trucks have to go cross country in less than a week to deliver their loads electric semi trucks don’t have the range to doo that yet. People should not complain about semi trucks because if it were not for a semi truck you would not have that smartphone to type on to complain about them. How do you think that phone made it from the shipping docks to your local electronics retailer. And how do you think your vehicle got to your local dealership. Semi trucks move everything you use in your lifetime, even the casket you get buried in.
Of course we would. FYI people got food and medical supplies delivered long before trucks existed. So trucks are not a necessity, even today. The railroads were doing that just fine until the government decided that we needed a new taxpayer subsidized delivery system, for our products.
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Old 10-23-2018, 12:59 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
4,008 posts, read 1,468,650 times
Reputation: 5403
Quote:
Originally Posted by robr2 View Post
Solar panels on a bus roof would just add complexity to the system. An electric school bus (now available from several companies) would be better served by depot charging. Now solar panels arranged over the parking lot would be of benefit to charge those buses.

But not all buses go back to the depot during the day. In my town, many of the buses are parked at the drivers' homes as many do an early PM run for the kindergarten.
The solution to that problem has been around for as long as buses have been around.

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Old 10-23-2018, 05:56 AM
 
3,557 posts, read 1,816,472 times
Reputation: 3838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz View Post
The solution to that problem has been around for as long as buses have been around.
Oh I am well aware of overhead pantograph systems for powering trolleybuses. Those are still in use here in the Boston area on routes through Cambridge, Watertown, and Belmont and on the Silver Line in Boston. There are drawbacks to those including the cost of installing such systems, the fixed nature of the route, and the perceived ugliness of the permanent infrastructure. There was a request by Belmont to get rid of the pantograph in order to beautify the town.
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:07 AM
 
Location: USA
13,237 posts, read 7,277,975 times
Reputation: 9579
The U.S is awash in fossil fuels. We have oceans of oil, and natural gas that can fuel us for centuries, and we are finding more every year. No need for alternatives. Relax, and use the cheap, available energy we have.
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Midwest
3,697 posts, read 6,712,673 times
Reputation: 5618
None.
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY
3,928 posts, read 3,540,259 times
Reputation: 3088
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTsnowbird View Post
I may be crazy, but I have long thought that school bus roofs would be perfect for solar panels. They take a short trip in the AM, sit all day, another short trip in the PM. And there are probably millions of them. And they do their sitting in a common central location. Think of all the energy they could produce on a sunny day.



Now if we can just get Elon Musk behind this project...
School buses don't always just sit all day. a driver may put in 20miles or so in the morning, especially if they do more than one school. A bus driver might pick up high school kids, take them to scho and turn around and get elementary kids. The bus might get used for a field trip. Might end up being used to train new drivers.
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