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Over 25 years of driving experience in the snow and I feel that you have far better control of a vehicle going downhill in slippery conditions if you can shift down a gear. Braking in slippery conditions is not recommended which is why I let my gears slow me down and keep my momentum instead. I make my transmission work for me so there is little chance of my wheels locking up. I try to use my brakes as little as possible in snowy conditions. Also, if you are to find yourself unable to pull through the snow or ice, if you place the transmission in 2nd gear, you have a far better chance of not having any wheel spin which will allow you to gain more traction.
I'll shift down and use engine braking sometimes as well - so don't take this as me completely saying it is bad to do. That said, it is not a better alternative to the actual brakes in slippery conditions -- it just helps out if you are lazy or can't brake gently properly.
Think about it - they both do the same exact thing -- apply a force (either via engine compression slowing down the axles or the brake pads/shoes) to slow down the car. The difference is, engine braking only works on the drive wheels (2 in most cases) and can't be controlled at all by the user - it is a constant force. Versus real braking, which impacts all 4 wheels and the user can control how much force is being used.
You could, in theory, apply the same exact force on the brake pedal as the engine braking is doing, and would have the exact same traction as you would with engine braking. In some, very slippery conditions, engine braking might even apply to much braking force, causing you to loose traction. You'll have no ABS or ability to lift off the pedal to fix this. You'll have to upshift, and then hit the brakes to some lesser degree.
The downside to using the actual brakes, is if you aren't "gentle" you can over-apply causing a traction loss as well.
EDIT: I should add there is certainly some merit to @willc86's method of applying throttle down-hill. Using the accelerator to move weight to the back wheels as opposed to using the brake that will move weight downhill is a good thing. That is exaggerated on the little bikes where it is easy to lighten the rear so much it is basically off the ground. Not as much as the car, which will have a more balanced weight distribution, but the effect still applies a little. That said in icy conditions where traction is minimal everything has to be just "right" (amount of traction, slope of hill, speed of car) that you can actually accelerate down the hill and I wouldn't count on that as your plan. Remember, engine braking and regular braking without acceleration will still lift weight off the rear just the same, so that doesn't help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffD
I do for hill descents. It’s way more effective than riding the brakes when you have limited traction. I use engine braking in those same spots on dry roads to save some wear and tear on the brake pads & rotors.
40 years ago, I was driving manual transmission cars where engine braking comes for free. My first automatic was a 1998 SUV. My first automatic in my daily driver was 2007. For me, I have a lot more control winter driving with a manual transmission car. I normally avoid using the brakes. With good snow tires, it’s not as important but I internalized that driving style many years ago with summer tires.
In many of the car forums we joke about this a lot. Using a very expensive transmission and an even more expensive engine that are both designed to make the car "go" to, instead, stop the car, to save the relatively cheap brake pads that are actually designed to stop the car is really backwards. As I noted above, I sometimes do it as well, so I'm not totally bashing the idea, but understand the thought process probably isn't the strongest. When i do it, it is not about saving brake wear at all, just that the sound of a certain engines/exhausts on overrun is probably the best sound in the world....
Why do you "have to shift back to 2nd when you start driving again"? Either let the automatic do its job (and nearly all are pretty damn good these days), or put it in winter/snow/traction mode and then forget about it, or go to manual shift if driving conditions are that poor and you're that good/picky.
My XC90 would go into the current manual gear (out of 6) when I pulled the lever to the left, and let me ratchet seamlessly up and down the stops. I never found it to be difficult - it was even enjoyable in some ways. Driving in snow, downhill in 2nd, it would stay in 2nd until I shifted out.
You seem to want both cake and pie and then have them change flavors, too.
Just cheesecake, please. Chocolate, if you will.
Because if I don't shift back to 2nd, it stays in 1st and maybe I don't want 1st.
There are times I shift rather than use the brakes. Like, when I am going just a wee bit too fast and I pass a cop. I shift down instead of hit the brake.
We have a bridge here that is on a long slant down the hill. It's a speed trap and people get taken out pretty regularly.
Rather than ride the brakes all the way down, I put my car in 3rd and then it will hold 40mph (the speed limit) all the way to the end without me having to use the brakes. But at the end of the bridge where the road goes level, there's a stoplight and if I have to come to a stop, the car goes into 1st. I then have to shift it out of 1st and into Drive again. I would be far happier if it would just stay in 3rd and I could shift from that to Drive.
So that's an extra shift of gears I don't like.
By the way, I thought that was manual shift. Oh, and I'm not talking about driving on ice. I'm just talking about driving and shifting in general. I've had my good times with the ice. My future way to deal with ice is to just stay home. As someone once said, "The ice will take you where the ice wants to take you."
Interesting responses here. I really thought all people used the engine and low gear to brake on ice. In fact, I learned to drive on ice many years ago (about 40 years ago) and was advised to drive on ice as if I had no brakes in the vehicle. This method is centered around using the engine and transmission to slow the vehicle down to nearly a complete stop with minimal braking. I am in the Midwest where ice is fairly common. Possibly, other parts of the U.S do not have ice as frequently.
Based on my personal experience, relying on the brakes on a downhill, icy, grade will not slow the vehicle down no matter how lightly the brakes are applied. The opposite is true as the vehicle will gain speed like a sled, or toboggan, due to the incline and ice. The only way the vehicle can be slowed at that point is to gain traction on the shoulder, go in the ditch, or to downshift to allow the wheels to spin and control the downhill speed. If there is snow on top of the ice, even a minimal amount, this is much better as traction can be gained from the snow on the surface of the ice. Snow without ice is not too difficult to drive in as long as it is not too deep to avoid getting high centered. Twice through my driving years, my vehicle has slid down inclines when parked on ice, no one in the vehicle at the time, and both times this occurred on very gradual slopes. This actually is not an uncommon event.
Trying to descend a hill on ice in Drive is similar to relying only on braking, but it is worse because there is forward momentum from the engine and transmission, speed will increase and even gentle braking will not control the vehicle and sliding speed will progressively increase at that point. I am really referring to conditions where there is sheer ice on the road and there is no traction to speak of.
Thanks for the information about how to manually downshift in vehicles with automatic transmission. It sounds like there are quite a few different ways to do so, depending on the vehicle.
I always wonder why those people didn't stay home.
I think they were trying to get home.
This was a sudden storm that caught most people and weathermen off guard. What happened was there had been rain the night before which froze overnight and then the snow came down on top of that. So now there was wet freezing snow over ice and Seattle is mostly all hills (I put my car in second when I go up some of those hills). Officially this was an ice storm.
I was across the Sound in Bremerton and they decided to let us out early from work that day. I lived less than 3 miles away and it took me 5 hours to get home that night. The traffic was horrendous and there was no salt or sand on the roads. While waiting in traffic, we also had thunder and lightning as well - thundersnow.
And of course, as soon as I got home and settled in a hot bath, a transformer blew. And there went the lights and the heat.
It was a fitting end to an interesting day.
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