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Old 01-16-2019, 08:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Slightly off topic, but if this happened to me, I think I would keep the $8000 and just live with the dented bed.
That dent could have been fixed very easily but you do have to make sure you take it to a body shop who knows how to work with aluminum. Every heavy duty truck out there (Freightliner, KW, etc) are all made of aluminum, too, and they have body repairs done all the time.

That situation sounds like it was taken somewhere who did not have the right expertise to work on it.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:22 PM
 
1,295 posts, read 1,514,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC211 View Post
I get that we're a global economy now. The US isn't the manufacturing powerhouse that it once was (just look at what happened to the furniture / textile business in Western NC during the Bush Jr. days). It'll be hard to put that genie back into the bottle. I get it. Look at the landscape today, and we have Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW, MB, BMW, Volvo and probably a few other "foreign" automakers here on US soil building their cars with US hands. That's not a bad thing in my book.


But when the home field team just can't seem to get it right to compete over and over and over again, that's just an embarrassment, and then taps into the American psyche to lay a guilt trip to sell them....that's just not right in my book.


No car is perfect. No manufacturer is perfect. They're complicated machines that take a ton of abuse and mostly neglect. I get that. But why on earth can Toyota get it right with the highlander (assembled in Princeton, Indiana) over and over and over again, when GM can't? When was the last time you ever heard of a HVAC compressor going out on a Toyota inside of 150,000 miles? And if it did, when was the last time you heard Toyota say it'd be at least 4 months before they could fix it? Come on guys.....


I say all of this with the view point of (a) having a Highlander approaching 100k trouble free miles while my neighbor (b) is on his second GMC Denali in the past 3 years, both of which had and continue to have defects of quality - like the HVAC compressor, the running boards shorting out, the door locks screwing up, rattles, leaks when it rains, and so on... Heck, my dad has that little Caddy SUV that doesn't have 30k miles and not but 3 years old, and the entire dash had to be replaced because for whatever reason, it just stopped working.. Same on his Chrystler Pacifica which is 1 year old - came out to start it over the summer, wouldn't start, noticed a fuel smell, opened the hood, and the damn fuel line had popped off the engine and was spraying it with fuel as he was trying to start it. 10k miles....


If this is the best Motown can do even still today, then I say let it crash and burn next time. I want my tax money back.


I don't know about Ford, have no experience with them. The Europeans seem to like them a lot though, which I take as a compliment.
Ford, GM and Chrysler are at a severe disadvantage in the global market relative to their competitors, especially the Asian countries. It's far more complicated than any of you seem to understand and I don't say that to be a condescending jerk, but as someone who has worked in the industry "on the inside" my entire life. All I've ever wanted is for Ford and GM to be given a level playing field to compete on, and then judge them based on how well they perform in that scenario. Unfortunately, I don't think America "gets it" and I don't expect to see that in my lifetime.

Here is one small example of what I'm talking about. Toyota and Honda get to keep a much higher percentage of their revenue due to lower taxes imposed on them compared to Ford and GM. (Which, in turn, can be reinvested into product programs, manufacturing tools/equipment, etc.) In this country, we actually penalize our "home team" companies - here is an example:

https://www.crainscleveland.com/arti...underscore-tax

This is just the tip of the iceburg, guys. There are a lot more issues besides that. Are Ford/GM perfect? No....there are certainly some self-inflicted wounds there for sure, but they are not as incompetent as you make them out to me.

Also keep in mind those same disadvantages that Ford/GM deal with, their American supply base has the same issue, too.
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Old 01-16-2019, 08:28 PM
 
2,011 posts, read 477,149 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
That dent could have been fixed very easily but you do have to make sure you take it to a body shop who knows how to work with aluminum. Every heavy duty truck out there (Freightliner, KW, etc) are all made of aluminum, too, and they have body repairs done all the time.

That situation sounds like it was taken somewhere who did not have the right expertise to work on it.
My local dealer has a paint/body shop but doesn't "work on" panels. New panels are ordered and they are replaced. Same with an independent shop I used once. Be sure to ask for OEM panels, trim, glass, etc.

My vehicle is a 2004 but you can still order a brand new frame, aperture, roof panels, quarter panels from Mopar directly. They're still in stock. Some parts are both discontinued and have stock depleted indefinitely, like headliners, carpet (not mats), and seat leather - which comes in pieces, you buy per cushion: bottom, back, or headrest. Cushion foam separate, controls separate, electric track separate, etc. You cannot buy a whole "seat" but you can buy all the required parts to assemble a complete one.

If you live in a larger city, you MAY have solid paintless dent repair talent, or paint correction specialists available. I'd use these guys if option 1 wasn't available, or if option 1 would cause me to lose irreplaceable decals or badges, resulting in an asymmetrical look.

Not knocking them, some of their work is amazing and extremely conservative with body filler, if any is used at all.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:38 AM
 
2,551 posts, read 3,133,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Mitch View Post
Slightly off topic, but if this happened to me, I think I would keep the $8000 and just live with the dented bed.
Check was written by the insurance company to the body shop and owner. It had to be fixed because it was financed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
That dent could have been fixed very easily but you do have to make sure you take it to a body shop who knows how to work with aluminum. Every heavy duty truck out there (Freightliner, KW, etc) are all made of aluminum, too, and they have body repairs done all the time.

That situation sounds like it was taken somewhere who did not have the right expertise to work on it.
You can't straighten the aluminum back out, it fractures. You have to replace the panel or have a piece that fits the damaged area perfectly, cut it out and tig weld it back in. They don't make patch panels for F150 bed corners. They don't have side panels either so you have to replace the entire bed. This was two weeks ago on a new model F150. Find some corner patch panels or bed sides for that aluminum bed and show us where you found them. lol Trust me, if they existed, the insurance company would have had them use them to save money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddm2k View Post
My local dealer has a paint/body shop but doesn't "work on" panels. New panels are ordered and they are replaced. Same with an independent shop I used once. Be sure to ask for OEM panels, trim, glass, etc.
Exactly, the reputable shops replace the panels. They are also usually required to replace the panels by the insurance company if it is significant damage. They don't beat a huge dent/damage area out with a shop hammer and then just float it out with bondo.
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:54 AM
 
2,551 posts, read 3,133,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger256 View Post
I posted this link here mechanic interview

they pretty much explain what every one has been saying about GM.

with the concentration on suvs and the poor customer service it's a wonder if GM will be able to survive any significant shift in consumer demand such as a sudden rise in gas prices.

But we live in a throw away society filled with stupid consumers eager to chase the latest fad.
I had never watched that video before. Those mechanics basically said the exact same things myself and others have been saying in this thread. lol

In particular, when he said something about the cheap Chinese made electronics always going bad. Man he hit the nail on the head with that statement. That is one of the biggest problems I have had with newer models. All the evap sensors and pressure sensors and touchscreen problems and all of that crap. It is just ridiculous because all of that can be made so it will last the lifetime of the vehicle. Honda and Toyota do not have evap and other sensors going bad all the time. They also do not have fuel pumps that fail regularly. Good grief at the fuel pumps I have had to replace in GM vehicles.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:21 AM
 
998 posts, read 495,918 times
Reputation: 968
GM is run by clowns, clowns who told me via telephone to file an NTSB complaint...against GM!.
All they had to do was approve a $75 repair, instead they open the door to potentially thousands of missed recall vehicles.
And perhaps lawsuits, considering the problem is with crash avoidance features.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:57 AM
 
1,295 posts, read 1,514,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dijkstra View Post
Check was written by the insurance company to the body shop and owner. It had to be fixed because it was financed.



You can't straighten the aluminum back out, it fractures. You have to replace the panel or have a piece that fits the damaged area perfectly, cut it out and tig weld it back in. They don't make patch panels for F150 bed corners. They don't have side panels either so you have to replace the entire bed. This was two weeks ago on a new model F150. Find some corner patch panels or bed sides for that aluminum bed and show us where you found them. lol Trust me, if they existed, the insurance company would have had them use them to save money.



Exactly, the reputable shops replace the panels. They are also usually required to replace the panels by the insurance company if it is significant damage. They don't beat a huge dent/damage area out with a shop hammer and then just float it out with bondo.
The insurance companies do not focus on saving money on repairs - that's a joke. They pay full list price for parts when every other customer pays at least 20% below list price. We love selling parts to body shops.

We just had one of our F-150 beds repaired 2 months ago. Our driver ran against a guardrail in the back corner and damaged the area between the wheel and the taillight. Problem was repaired with no issue - without a new bed needed. (We paid for it out of pocket so we didn't have to file an insurance claim.)

We deal with aluminum repairs all the time on all kinds of trucks. Never had an issue....you just have to make sure they are an aluminum certified shop.

https://www.consumerreports.org/vide...um-ford-f-150/
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:00 PM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,578 posts, read 1,814,259 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
All I've ever wanted is for Ford and GM to be given a level playing field to compete on, and then judge them based on how well they perform in that scenario. Unfortunately, I don't think America "gets it" and I don't expect to see that in my lifetime.
An American car company has to pay union wages and benefits. I very much doubt they could compete on a global scale.

Part of the max profit approach is for short term gains since the GM leadership needs to keep wall street happy when earnings are released.

There's is no easy way out for GM/Ford/Chrysler.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
3,279 posts, read 884,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunslinger256 View Post
An American car company has to pay union wages and benefits. I very much doubt they could compete on a global scale.

Part of the max profit approach is for short term gains since the GM leadership needs to keep wall street happy when earnings are released.

There's is no easy way out for GM/Ford/Chrysler.
And so does the European automakers they have a union workforce also. VW is the second largest automaker in the world so you can’t bring up union wages.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:36 PM
 
1,295 posts, read 1,514,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
And so does the European automakers they have a union workforce also. VW is the second largest automaker in the world so you canít bring up union wages.
Easy is right. Are the unions a financial disadvantage because of the higher wages Ford and GM have to pay? Yes.....

Are they a pain in the you-know-what? Yes....

But you know what, the UAW is not even in the top 10 things that impact Ford and GM's global competitiveness. It's an issue, just not as big as most people make it out to be.
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