U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-17-2019, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
3,286 posts, read 887,125 times
Reputation: 2698

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
Easy is right. Are the unions a financial disadvantage because of the higher wages Ford and GM have to pay? Yes.....

Are they a pain in the you-know-what? Yes....

But you know what, the UAW is not even in the top 10 things that impact Ford and GM's global competitiveness. It's an issue, just not as big as most people make it out to be.


Germany paid their autoworkers about $67 an hour (including wages and benefits). But the United States paid its average worker only $33 an hour (also including wages and benefits). On top of that, German car manufacturers were highly profitable, despite the comparatively large paychecks of their workers. BMW earned a before-tax profit of 3.8 billion euros, and Mercedes-Benz hauled in profits of 4.6 billion euros.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-18-2019, 06:38 AM
 
1,296 posts, read 1,515,429 times
Reputation: 1076
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy62 View Post
Germany paid their autoworkers about $67 an hour (including wages and benefits). But the United States paid its average worker only $33 an hour (also including wages and benefits). On top of that, German car manufacturers were highly profitable, despite the comparatively large paychecks of their workers. BMW earned a before-tax profit of 3.8 billion euros, and Mercedes-Benz hauled in profits of 4.6 billion euros.
Keep in mind with European plants not every single factory worker gets paid that high-wage. They have a different tiering structure as well as using supplier parks and other avenues to make the labor cheaper.

I had he opportunity to visit the Audi facilities in Hungary. At that time it was where they built a lot of engines as well as the Audi TT. I was amazed that Audi had less than half of the workforce compared to the Ford mustang plant. After learning more about it, you realize that half of the workforce used to assemble that product was actually non Audi labor. It was primarily supplier labor and their wages were 35% less than what the Audi employees got.

For example, after the car rolls off the line it is actually moved into the inspection area by non Audi employees. All the pre-delivery testing and other work that goes on is done by a 3rd party company. That's not how we do it in the US with Ford and GM plants.

Audi also set up many supplier parks for sub-assemblies to reduce the overall cost of labor, just like the Japanese companies do in North America. it was funny to see how much smaller that Audi TT plant was inside, but when a third of your vehicle is actually assembled across the street you don't need such a big plant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2019, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
3,286 posts, read 887,125 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel View Post
Keep in mind with European plants not every single factory worker gets paid that high-wage. They have a different tiering structure as well as using supplier parks and other avenues to make the labor cheaper.

I had he opportunity to visit the Audi facilities in Hungary. At that time it was where they built a lot of engines as well as the Audi TT. I was amazed that Audi had less than half of the workforce compared to the Ford mustang plant. After learning more about it, you realize that half of the workforce used to assemble that product was actually non Audi labor. It was primarily supplier labor and their wages were 35% less than what the Audi employees got.

For example, after the car rolls off the line it is actually moved into the inspection area by non Audi employees. All the pre-delivery testing and other work that goes on is done by a 3rd party company. That's not how we do it in the US with Ford and GM plants.

Audi also set up many supplier parks for sub-assemblies to reduce the overall cost of labor, just like the Japanese companies do in North America. it was funny to see how much smaller that Audi TT plant was inside, but when a third of your vehicle is actually assembled across the street you don't need such a big plant.
And now with this new Ford alliance with VW to make cars for the American market and Ford to make smaller pickups for the European market beginning in 2022 it’s going to be interesting to see how things are done and if they will share manufacturing process or create something new together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2019, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Murrica
2,608 posts, read 1,529,716 times
Reputation: 1417
German unions are equally about training and maintaining the workforce. A German union would not force a company to keep an under performing employee as can happen in the US.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,354 posts, read 60,744,820 times
Reputation: 28131
Quote:
Originally Posted by m1a1mg View Post
German unions are equally about training and maintaining the workforce. A German union would not force a company to keep an under performing employee as can happen in the US.
What makes you say that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-18-2019, 09:49 PM
 
Location: Murrica
2,608 posts, read 1,529,716 times
Reputation: 1417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
What makes you say that?
My previous brother in law worked in a German union. We talked about the differences. He never could understand the way US unions work. From his perspective, they took pride in what they did and wouldn't tolerate dead weight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2019, 05:23 PM
 
Location: NYC
12,058 posts, read 8,032,821 times
Reputation: 13100
GM is running many commercials claiming Chevy is the most reliable brand, not Toyota, Honda, or Ford. I like to know based on what study. They need to spend more money earning the trust of people instead of running these useless ads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2019, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Fuquay Varina
4,295 posts, read 6,330,716 times
Reputation: 10273
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
GM is running many commercials claiming Chevy is the most reliable brand, not Toyota, Honda, or Ford. I like to know based on what study. They need to spend more money earning the trust of people instead of running these useless ads.
If they are really so reliable they should have no problem extending the factory warranty!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2019, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
3,286 posts, read 887,125 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
GM is running many commercials claiming Chevy is the most reliable brand, not Toyota, Honda, or Ford. I like to know based on what study. They need to spend more money earning the trust of people instead of running these useless ads.

Gm made a profit of $12.8 billion and handed out profit sharing checks of up to $11,700 for full time UAW workers. So i guess people are buying their pickups and SUVS and CUVs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-19-2019, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Floribama
13,971 posts, read 30,081,333 times
Reputation: 12551
Quote:
Originally Posted by vision33r View Post
GM is running many commercials claiming Chevy is the most reliable brand, not Toyota, Honda, or Ford. I like to know based on what study. They need to spend more money earning the trust of people instead of running these useless ads.
They like to talk about JD Power ‘initial quality’ surveys which doesn’t amount to squat. How well they hold up after 5 years or so is what matters, because that’s what determines resale, and most people don’t want to buy a new car with terrible resale.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top