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Old Today, 08:24 AM
 
423 posts, read 316,915 times
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Does anyone actually know what the additional fees are for when buying brought a dealership?
When I bought my wife’s VW a few weeks ago they had a $799.00 “doc fee “ all profit), and a $206 “govt fee” which I’ve never seen and no one could really explain. $1000 in dealer fees is crazy but they won’t even discuss them as a line item in the negotiations.

If you buy through a broker, do you avoid those ?
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Old Today, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
2,049 posts, read 3,163,905 times
Reputation: 2478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Familyman6 View Post
Does anyone actually know what the additional fees are for when buying brought a dealership?
When I bought my wife’s VW a few weeks ago they had a $799.00 “doc fee “ all profit), and a $206 “govt fee” which I’ve never seen and no one could really explain. $1000 in dealer fees is crazy but they won’t even discuss them as a line item in the negotiations.
If you buy through a broker, do you avoid those ?
I'm sorry, but you got taken, but bad. Car sales are very unregulated. They will charge you what they think you will pay.
You need to do the research and negotiate from knowledge.

Most of those fees are just distractions to bump their profit. You are paying them money, don't hand them the check until you know where every penny goes, and you know (to the penny) how much profit they are making. Yes, they are a business and deserve to make a (reasonable) profit if they provide a useful service, but you should spend the time doing the research and find out the wholesale prices for the basic car, the options, plus all the add-ons, and then know what to not pay for.

IE: $800 "Doc fee" is ridiculous. This is supposed to cover paying their staff to file the Tag and Title paperwork. I've paid $100 to avoid the time and hassles at the DMV, but not more. It should be considered a buyer's choice to pay, as I'm sure many folks wouldn't mind taking a few hours off and standing in line after downloading forms and filling them out.

The Gov fee is almost certainly bunk.
"Dealer fees" is synonymous with Give Me Extra Profit.
I've also seen dealers charge extra for floor mats, filling the gas tank, removing the shipping labels from the factory, providing a final car wash and polish.
-- All rip-offs. This is like buying a refrigerator and paying extra for the power cord, the interior shelving and..... the ice trays.
All those tasks are a part of the Dealer Overhead, and are paid for out of their profit. How much is fair profit is what your research tells you, and depends on the car, model, popularity in your area, and other things. It could be a few hundred dollars to over a thousand, but you should know what's reasonable and
common.

If you're willing to do 10-15 hours of research, you can save hundreds of dollars (I saved $1,600 off my last one). NOTE: this research may turn up some fees that are mandatory. IE: My last car had a mandatory $800 fee to deliver the car to me, that was charged to the dealer by the factory. And every dealer added this to their price. Reasonable.

But, to finally answer the second part of your question, a broker can do that research for you, for their fee. I used one once that charged 1/3 of what they saved you, when you showed them your own best offer from the dealer. Or you could try the Car Buying services, like from Costco, or from some of the Credit Unions.
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Old Today, 09:51 AM
 
423 posts, read 316,915 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_RDNC View Post
I'm sorry, but you got taken, but bad. Car sales are very unregulated. They will charge you what they think you will pay.
You need to do the research and negotiate from knowledge.

Most of those fees are just distractions to bump their profit. You are paying them money, don't hand them the check until you know where every penny goes, and you know (to the penny) how much profit they are making. Yes, they are a business and deserve to make a (reasonable) profit if they provide a useful service, but you should spend the time doing the research and find out the wholesale prices for the basic car, the options, plus all the add-ons, and then know what to not pay for.

IE: $800 "Doc fee" is ridiculous. This is supposed to cover paying their staff to file the Tag and Title paperwork. I've paid $100 to avoid the time and hassles at the DMV, but not more. It should be considered a buyer's choice to pay, as I'm sure many folks wouldn't mind taking a few hours off and standing in line after downloading forms and filling them out.

The Gov fee is almost certainly bunk.
"Dealer fees" is synonymous with Give Me Extra Profit.
I've also seen dealers charge extra for floor mats, filling the gas tank, removing the shipping labels from the factory, providing a final car wash and polish.
-- All rip-offs. This is like buying a refrigerator and paying extra for the power cord, the interior shelving and..... the ice trays.
All those tasks are a part of the Dealer Overhead, and are paid for out of their profit. How much is fair profit is what your research tells you, and depends on the car, model, popularity in your area, and other things. It could be a few hundred dollars to over a thousand, but you should know what's reasonable and
common.

If you're willing to do 10-15 hours of research, you can save hundreds of dollars (I saved $1,600 off my last one). NOTE: this research may turn up some fees that are mandatory. IE: My last car had a mandatory $800 fee to deliver the car to me, that was charged to the dealer by the factory. And every dealer added this to their price. Reasonable.

But, to finally answer the second part of your question, a broker can do that research for you, for their fee. I used one once that charged 1/3 of what they saved you, when you showed them your own best offer from the dealer. Or you could try the Car Buying services, like from Costco, or from some of the Credit Unions.

Good intel. $800 is the highest doc fee I have ever seen and I said something about to the sales manager. He said that’s the max amount allowed by the state. Insane thy get away with that stuff. Such a shady industry.

When I bought my wife’s new VW Atlas I did really well according to what I could find online. I only use the lines items to figure out where my best strategy is to start negotiating. This time is was with the trade that I knew would be neg but in the end they paid it off with over allowance. All I truly care about is the bottom line. At the end of the day her sticker price was $44,300. I walked out the door for around $39,500k including taxes and fees. I know they made some money or they wouldn’t have done the deal but I was happy with the deal and happier to trade in that other POS.

Costco pricing was around $1,500k higher. I also chatted briefly with the AAA auto rep but he couldn’t get me under $41k(with trade included) but I forgot to ask if that included any of the dealer BS fees. Hence why I asked if brokers avoid those. All in all it took me 3 hours to buy the car but I was better off doing it the old fashioned way. $500/ hour is a pretty good rate. Lol.
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Old Today, 10:03 AM
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
55,415 posts, read 39,140,962 times
Reputation: 27583
Quote:
Originally Posted by Familyman6 View Post
Does anyone actually know what the additional fees are for when buying brought a dealership?
When I bought my wife’s VW a few weeks ago they had a $799.00 “doc fee “ all profit), and a $206 “govt fee” which I’ve never seen and no one could really explain. $1000 in dealer fees is crazy but they won’t even discuss them as a line item in the negotiations.

If you buy through a broker, do you avoid those ?

If anyone in any business tries to charge me unexplainable fees, I walk.

The most I'd give a car dealer, and it's being generous, is $100 'Doc' fee to cover their cost of sending someone to the DMV + the actual cost of tag & registration.
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Old Today, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Fredericksburg, VA
10,436 posts, read 10,649,808 times
Reputation: 13450
There are so many places and ways to buy a vehicle now that any dealer that attempts to tack on additional "dealer fees" or "convenience fees" is crazy. I've encountered this in the past and made it clear those fees can come right off the top. When they wouldn't budge my short visit to their lot came to an abrupt end and I went somewhere that wasn't charging into the thousands in miscellaneous fees.


A basic rule I always remember when on a car lot is they need to sell a vehicle way more than I need to buy one. If I don't get the terms I want I'll go elsewhere.
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Old Today, 10:12 AM
 
423 posts, read 316,915 times
Reputation: 437
[QUOTE
A basic rule I always remember when on a car lot is they need to sell a vehicle way more than I need to buy one. If I don't get the terms I want I'll go elsewhere.[/quote]

YES!! I actually used this line during my 3 hour experience. lol...

I am sure every new car dealer charges doc fees but i have never seen a " gov't fee" .

When I was in the offseason while I was playing MiLB I sold cars to supplement income at a Toyo dealer. Their doc fee was $250, but that twas over 10 years ago. The $250 was a non negotiable line item then as well so if we had a customer that demanded it go away the best we could do was take additional $250 off the price or inflate the trade$250 more.

Terrible buying process and buyers are rarely " winners" .

Last edited by Familyman6; Today at 10:24 AM..
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Old Today, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Gray Court, SC
2,731 posts, read 1,864,883 times
Reputation: 2796
Ive never paid any doc fees, or any other fees they add on. Ive paid sales tax, and tag fees, but doc fees, etc. Nope. Walked out a couple of deals because of it. Of course my local Chevy dealer matched the deal, and doesnt charge those fees so they are m go to Chevy/GM dealer, and the Ford dealer I use, on rare occasion, doesnt charge them either.
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Old Today, 10:27 AM
 
173 posts, read 42,535 times
Reputation: 312
I heard someone mention that certain dealers are charging diagnostic fees(up to $150) for warranty work.
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Old Today, 10:34 AM
 
423 posts, read 316,915 times
Reputation: 437
My favorite was when I was in F&I and they were pitching the craziest stuff:
- GAP insurance which I believe in - but it was $900.00- $52.00 a year through my insurance and that is a new car replacement policy.
- replacement key program- $500
- typical ext/interior protection packages - $1100 i think. I am a firm believer in protecting the interior and exterior but when I do these types of things I like to have them done by a professional detail company( for much less) and not a 18 year old porter making $8.00 an hour.
- wheel repair/replacement- $500
- exterior scratch and dent protection - $600.00

dealer are comical with their gimmicks.
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Old Today, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Lee County, NC
1,110 posts, read 341,498 times
Reputation: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by Familyman6 View Post
they won’t even discuss them as a line item in the negotiations.
That's when you get up, say "thank you for your time", and walk out of the showroom.
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