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Old Today, 10:00 AM
 
2,420 posts, read 1,341,412 times
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There's no one holding a gun to anyone's head making them purchase new cars. Certainly not the auto manufacturers. If people want to buy an older and cheaper car, they can do so. Being older doesn't necessarily mean unreliable either, there are cars from a variety of makes that have made solid, dependable cars since the 80's, and you can find plenty of cheap reliable used cars from the 90's before things started getting "too complicated" for some people to own and maintain.
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Old Today, 10:15 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
21,196 posts, read 38,194,793 times
Reputation: 21484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katana49 View Post
There's no one holding a gun to anyone's head making them purchase new cars. Certainly not the auto manufacturers. If people want to buy an older and cheaper car, they can do so. Being older doesn't necessarily mean unreliable either, there are cars from a variety of makes that have made solid, dependable cars since the 80's, and you can find plenty of cheap reliable used cars from the 90's before things started getting "too complicated" for some people to own and maintain.
or... more economical...

Mine says.....
50 mpg since 1976, where have you been?

Reliable? ... I take my neighbors to the stealer for warranty work on their new cars, far more often than I have ever been to a fix-it-shop (never). 100% of them have been towed in for some 'snafu' of modern mechanical genius (car won't run). me...? Not yet KoW

Safety? I'm insured (and ready to GO!)
Someone will have a very nice estate sale and have even more fun with the proceeds. (My bad motorcycle habit will assure that. )
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Old Today, 10:20 AM
 
31,262 posts, read 24,903,405 times
Reputation: 18113
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
True but repair cost are triple of what they were 30 years ago, even 20.

that might seem to be the case, but lets look at some reality here shall we? the biggest driver of repair costs are labor rates, we can all agree on that. 30 years ago labor rates averaged, depending on your location, about $50-125 per hour depending on where you took your car. today those rates are about $80-175 per hour. that has kept pace with inflation.


30 years ago, most shops didnt charge for diagnostic time, they do today, and should because up until fairly recently the mechanics and the shops as well, screwed themselves out of revenue. but upside however is that modern cars, after 1996, are much easier to diagnose. the cars computer tells you what system is being affected, and the shop manual tells you what tests need to be run. 30 years ago you werent able to do that, you had to go through a ton of time checking systems, repairing things, checking again, and hoping you got things right only to have the car come back with the same problem and then rinse lather repeat.


so customers were paying for repairs they didnt need, and having to bring the car back and pay more money when more stuff was found wrong. these days you plug in a diagnostic tool, find where the problem lies and what tests need to be run, run those tests, find the problem, fix the car right the first time, and the customer drives out, maybe with a larger initial bill but wont be bringing that car back time and time again to try and repair the car. so in the long run you actually SAVE money.


Quote:
Originally Posted by earthisle View Post
This isn't true. Modern cars aren't any more difficult to work on than old cars, and they're far more reliable than they've ever been in history.

thats not totally true, there are some cars that have shall we say unique issues when working on them. for instance diesel powered ford trucks need to have the cab removed in order to do a lot of work on those trucks. fortunately ford realized this and made it easier to remove the cab. with others you sometimes have to pull the engine to do certain things, but that does give the opportunity to make some repairs that would otherwise cause the car to be brought back and the same thing happen for minor repairs.


but remember back in the 70s the chevy monza required that you partially at least remove the engine just to change spark plugs! so every car has its quirks.
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Old Today, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Maryland
165 posts, read 24,364 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot1 View Post
I will say this, it is more common for cars to go higher mileage today than before, so I think you are getting more value that way. However, have you looked at the price of vehicles today? In 1971, I remember seeing advertisements for cars like the VW Bug, Pinto, and Vega for around $2,000 NEW. Adjusted for inflation that is $12,600 now. So what basic, vehicle can you buy today NEW for $12.6K? Even the lowest priced Hyundai starts at over $16K that's has wheels.
And that most basic Hyundai is built better than a Pinto or VW Beetle, is faster, gets better fuel economy and is vastly safer, too. AND lasts longer in day to day use. Again, you get so much more now than you ever used to.
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Old Today, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Wyoming
9,272 posts, read 16,804,451 times
Reputation: 13741
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
True but repair cost are triple of what they were 30 years ago, even 20.
Adjusted for inflation? I doubt it very much. Toyotas are noted for being trouble-free, but I've got 107k miles on my 2015 Prius now, and I've yet to spend a nickel on anything other than fuel, oil, filters, tires and wiper blades. I think that's phenomenal. The last three years I owned my 2000 F250 (also purchased new) I averaged annual repair bills of $10K+. (Those last three years it was driven like I drive my current vehicle, 25K+ miles per year.)
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Old Today, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Maryland
165 posts, read 24,364 times
Reputation: 251
[quote=burdell;54144055]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunbiz1 View Post

Frequency of repairs needs to be factored in. I used to do machine work and know people who still do, things like removing cylinder heads for a 'valve job' are no where near as common today as they were years ago. Also consider things like exhaust systems, many today are stainless steel and last the life of the vehicle.

Remember when the valve job and the like was part of the owner's manuals? There was a reason tool kits came with so many vintage cars. you were expected to work on them as part of the normal routine. Now cars can last a couple hundred thousand miles with tender loving neglect.
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Old Today, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Maryland
165 posts, read 24,364 times
Reputation: 251
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFL_Native View Post
Compared to when?

Even 10 years ago Accords topped out at $30k and now they are $40k+. The base price for cars might fit your equation but going to the mid-TOTL model will certainly break it. Autos are killing people on packages, Add ons, and options. That is where they make their profit!
What you get, spec for spec, is still a lower cost when inflation is factored in, but more importantly, since the '70s and '80s when cars were not very well equipped and didn't last very long, the new ones compare quite favorably to them.

Let's look at some top models, instead of basic cars. My 18 year old BMW was $90k when new. The same model and spec is $100k now. With inflation factored in, it actually costs less than it used to, and you get more power, more luxury, and better fuel economy from the new one.

My RX7 was $14k when new in '86. That would be $31k today. That's MORE than the cost of the equivalent Toyota GT86 today (which is the same size, layout, has more performance, but is safer and more reliable).
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Old Today, 10:40 AM
 
9,598 posts, read 11,492,451 times
Reputation: 12887
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
True but repair cost are triple of what they were 30 years ago, even 20.
Thats called inflation.......How much was a movie ticket 30 years ago vs. today? Gallon of gas? Gallon of milk? 1989 you could buy a brand new Honda Accord for $13,000 vs. today at what double that?
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Old Today, 10:43 AM
 
9,598 posts, read 11,492,451 times
Reputation: 12887
[quote=cvetters63;54144359]
Quote:
Originally Posted by burdell View Post


Remember when the valve job and the like was part of the owner's manuals? There was a reason tool kits came with so many vintage cars. you were expected to work on them as part of the normal routine. Now cars can last a couple hundred thousand miles with tender loving neglect.
Valid point but today due to cost cutting they delete "tools, spare tires, jacks" and oh yeah it might save a mouthful of gasoline (due to less weight)
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Old Today, 10:44 AM
 
Location: MN
2,887 posts, read 2,689,675 times
Reputation: 2268
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
that might seem to be the case, but lets look at some reality here shall we? the biggest driver of repair costs are labor rates, we can all agree on that. 30 years ago labor rates averaged, depending on your location, about $50-125 per hour depending on where you took your car. today those rates are about $80-175 per hour. that has kept pace with inflation.


30 years ago, most shops didnt charge for diagnostic time, they do today, and should because up until fairly recently the mechanics and the shops as well, screwed themselves out of revenue. but upside however is that modern cars, after 1996, are much easier to diagnose. the cars computer tells you what system is being affected, and the shop manual tells you what tests need to be run. 30 years ago you werent able to do that, you had to go through a ton of time checking systems, repairing things, checking again, and hoping you got things right only to have the car come back with the same problem and then rinse lather repeat.


so customers were paying for repairs they didnt need, and having to bring the car back and pay more money when more stuff was found wrong. these days you plug in a diagnostic tool, find where the problem lies and what tests need to be run, run those tests, find the problem, fix the car right the first time, and the customer drives out, maybe with a larger initial bill but wont be bringing that car back time and time again to try and repair the car. so in the long run you actually SAVE money.





thats not totally true, there are some cars that have shall we say unique issues when working on them. for instance diesel powered ford trucks need to have the cab removed in order to do a lot of work on those trucks. fortunately ford realized this and made it easier to remove the cab. with others you sometimes have to pull the engine to do certain things, but that does give the opportunity to make some repairs that would otherwise cause the car to be brought back and the same thing happen for minor repairs.


but remember back in the 70s the chevy monza required that you partially at least remove the engine just to change spark plugs! so every car has its quirks.
Company I used to run has a 2001 F250 diesel with a oil pan that looks like Swiss cheese (Common problem) Have to remove the engine to replace it. It’s a 17hr job on a plow only rusted out truck not worth much. Good luck getting it out easy, it’ll take much longer then the 17hr guestimate. Truck hasn’t and won’t be fixed. That and all the shops we are friends with owners, they won’t do the job.
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