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View Poll Results: Would there be a market for mass produced simple basic cars?
yes 44 46.81%
no 50 53.19%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-26-2019, 09:53 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,934 posts, read 40,349,585 times
Reputation: 41943

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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
Why go through that ass-ache to get a turd sandwich when you can just go to a dealer and buy this?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

So cute!
Manual transmission, crank windows... plus it meets all safety and emission standards. What's not to like?
It has too much stuff!!!!!!!. That is an example of today's base car. What would have sold for $3K, if that, thirty or thirty five years ago. And it's much better equipped than one of those cars were.

I already mentioned I don't miss carburetors, chokes, too small non-power drum brakes or many other examples of "basic" mentioned. Cable brakes? Yeah, that's a real good idea.
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Podunk, IA
3,051 posts, read 1,397,809 times
Reputation: 3127
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
It has too much stuff!!!!!!!.
You're right.
They should've left off the driver's door bin. Who needs that???
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:34 AM
 
4,055 posts, read 2,241,697 times
Reputation: 7064
Like a Fiat?
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Old 01-26-2019, 04:09 PM
 
1,466 posts, read 644,312 times
Reputation: 1533
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
Why go through that ass-ache to get a turd sandwich when you can just go to a dealer and buy this?

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...Type=spotlight

So cute!
Manual transmission, crank windows... plus it meets all safety and emission standards. What's not to like?

The price. and it still does not have the simplisity to work on yourself outside of minor stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
It has too much stuff!!!!!!!. That is an example of today's base car. What would have sold for $3K, if that, thirty or thirty five years ago. And it's much better equipped than one of those cars were.

I already mentioned I don't miss carburetors, chokes, too small non-power drum brakes or many other examples of "basic" mentioned. Cable brakes? Yeah, that's a real good idea.

So your ok with being dependent on dealerships when problems come up? good for you, as it seems you can afford it. there was a time where anyone with a job(any job) could afford a car, you see a cheap new car would bring down the cost of used cars.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Katana49 View Post
Simple cars... Cable brakes? LOL


yep, less things to go wrong than with hydraulic breaks we use now and much cheaper to fix.

Quote:
What you're proposing is that the manufacturers go back to building unsafe cars, free of any government safety guidelines, and it's a horrible idea. You can't cut out the modern safety equipment mandated by law, so that $1k figure goes out the window immediately. Airbags are a good thing (and if everyone is driving around in cars with cable brakes, they'll be needed quite often!) Emissions controls, catalytic converters, etc, all add cost and are mandated by law.
No they would have seat belts, and it's not like people were flying trough their windows on a daily basis for the first 90 years of the automobiles existence.

Quote:
What you're really proposing is for a major manufacturer to basically get in the business of building kit cars, so the economies of scale can work in reducing pricing down to as little as possible. However, current laws don't allow it. Kit car manufacturers are only allowed to sell 325 turnkey cars to people direct, per year. A large manufacturer could probably turn out that many cars in a matter of hours, and then what do they produce for the rest of the year? The kit car companies that do exist, are turning out a product that can have a minimum of bells and whistles... but the cars still need to meet all safety and emissions guidelines. If you're ever priced out the cheapest kit you can build yourself, you'll see you're still spending about $10k minimum, and then you're going to be driving an unpainted car too.

You do know the poverty level AND the working poor make up about 48% of the American population. we have created a car dependent society(outside of a few smart cities that have cheap affordable mass transit), but we have made the cost of car ownership out of reach of many of that 48%.



But my hats off to you for atleast understanding that the reason that kit car costs 20K to build is because you or I can only buy one at a time or build one at a time.





that 3 cylinder motor that it cost 1K for a machinist to make from scratch with 50 bucks worth of metal(took an engine to the scrapyard this morning and got 40 bucks for it) but order one from a factory in ahhbudabee full of robots might get the same motor a few hundred cheaper, order a few hundred thousand and might get them for a few hundred each(I know I'm over simplifying her but you get it).
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Old 01-26-2019, 04:41 PM
 
371 posts, read 94,103 times
Reputation: 1260
I drove a 1990 3-door Ford Festiva hatchback for 90,000 miles. Absolutely loved that little car, it was good on gas, easy to get in and out of, the cockpit was roomy, was very reliable, and went through snow almost like a jeep. I took out the rear seats and was able to load it up with stuff you wouldn't think would fit in such a small car (for instance, the largest tool box bottom box Craftsman made at the time, I was still able to close the hatch, I think). I replaced it with a 1997 Ford Aspire, which was not nearly as good at what the Festiva excelled at. It had A/C and automatic, but no power steering, windows, locks, etc.. The co-worker who bought mine was still going strong at 150k miles. It was "peppy" around town, and very nimble and easy to drive.

I'd buy one of those things today in a heartbeat if they still made them. What I would like even better, is a Suzuki "Jimny" (the old Samurai or Geo Tracker, similar in style to a Jeep Wrangler but much smaller). Think of the original 3-door RAV4 of the mid 90's. I wish I would have bought three of those at the time and stored them for future use.

To the Post, you can still go out and buy a base Mitsubishi Mirage, I've heard of them being advertised for ten grand, and they come with a 5-year bumper to bumper warranty (and 100,000 miles on the drivetrain), and are supposedly reliable little cars. So, there is at least one new car out there that is not out of reach for most working people. But you rarely see them on the street, because people will go deeper into debt for something their friends won't giggle at them driving.
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Old 01-26-2019, 05:06 PM
 
10,102 posts, read 7,778,475 times
Reputation: 24728
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphorx View Post
No they would have seat belts, and it's not like people were flying trough their windows on a daily basis for the first 90 years of the automobiles existence.
You think this problem began in the 70s? The physics of untethered bodies, speed and hard stops/collisions have always existed.
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Old 01-26-2019, 10:42 PM
Status: "Awesome as usual" (set 2 days ago)
 
1,648 posts, read 337,348 times
Reputation: 2162
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphorx View Post
The price. and it still does not have the simplisity to work on yourself outside of minor stuff.





So your ok with being dependent on dealerships when problems come up? good for you, as it seems you can afford it. there was a time where anyone with a job(any job) could afford a car, you see a cheap new car would bring down the cost of used cars.









yep, less things to go wrong than with hydraulic breaks we use now and much cheaper to fix.



No they would have seat belts, and it's not like people were flying trough their windows on a daily basis for the first 90 years of the automobiles existence.




You do know the poverty level AND the working poor make up about 48% of the American population. we have created a car dependent society(outside of a few smart cities that have cheap affordable mass transit), but we have made the cost of car ownership out of reach of many of that 48%.



But my hats off to you for atleast understanding that the reason that kit car costs 20K to build is because you or I can only buy one at a time or build one at a time.





that 3 cylinder motor that it cost 1K for a machinist to make from scratch with 50 bucks worth of metal(took an engine to the scrapyard this morning and got 40 bucks for it) but order one from a factory in ahhbudabee full of robots might get the same motor a few hundred cheaper, order a few hundred thousand and might get them for a few hundred each(I know I'm over simplifying her but you get it).
kinda hard to believe you know anything about cars when you can't even spell basic components correctly.
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Old 01-27-2019, 02:47 AM
 
7,114 posts, read 4,625,307 times
Reputation: 12473
Quote:
Originally Posted by EckyX View Post
I haven't read the thread but I'd like to point out that 3-wheeled vehicles can be classified as motorcycles and avoid most safety regulations. That was the angle of companies like Aptera, Elio Motors and others.
I've thought about your (and related) points further, and have concluded that the solution is already readily apparent: a motorcycle. I drive exclusively alone, carrying no cargo, mostly on rural roads... and am mostly indifferent to "safety". The solution - in terms of cost, simplicity, convenience, ease of parking and so forth... is a motorcycle. If only I could figure out how to drive a motorcycle through Ohio's winters...
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Old 01-27-2019, 08:58 AM
 
17,108 posts, read 18,445,218 times
Reputation: 24792
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyphorx View Post
By simple and basic, I mean none of the bells and whistles of modern cars, no computer systems, advanced emissions systems, modern braking systems, electric window controls, etc etc etc.



just a basic motor that comes in 3 , 4 or 8 cylinders, manual tranny, drive shaft and 4 wheels. a car that anyone with a $50 ratchet set can work on and fix the majority of problems that may come up(no specialized parts). that could be sold for under 2K new.






I have a young cousin in college who did a report on the average cost to build a car factoring in money spent on R&D, labor and materials, the cost of each part. if you strip away all the bells and whistles with todays modern production technology a Functional car or truck could be built for under 1K.
I donít see how thatís remotely possible.

Absolute bs.
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Old 01-27-2019, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, AK
6,441 posts, read 3,510,095 times
Reputation: 13350
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curly Q. Bobalink View Post
I'd buy one of those things today in a heartbeat if they still made them. What I would like even better, is a Suzuki "Jimny" (the old Samurai or Geo Tracker, similar in style to a Jeep Wrangler but much smaller). Think of the original 3-door RAV4 of the mid 90's. I wish I would have bought three of those at the time and stored them for future use.

The Samurai and the Tracker were two different vehicles. The Tracker was a rebadged Suzuki Sidekick.
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