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Old 02-21-2019, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
6,097 posts, read 12,483,892 times
Reputation: 2740

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That supports my point that the Model 3 is such a new car that it’s silly to pass final judgment on it’s long-term reliability. Time will tell.
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Old 02-21-2019, 07:46 PM
 
Location: SoCal
1,523 posts, read 3,253,986 times
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KIA & Hyundai is #1


They're basically the only company today that designs and manufactures all their components "in-house" thus enabling them to maintain optimal design and top notch quality.


Toyota is a close second in this - but too bad at Toyota the penny pinchers have greater power than the engineers - which shows in their product when compared to the Koreans.


Honda is terrible - they don't even know how to make a proper transmission.


The rest of other brands are bits n pieces sourced from different companies in different countries which is typical of globalisation.
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Old 02-22-2019, 04:36 AM
 
Location: Floribama
14,216 posts, read 30,434,973 times
Reputation: 12877
Quote:
Originally Posted by yowps3 View Post
KIA & Hyundai is #1


They're basically the only company today that designs and manufactures all their components "in-house" thus enabling them to maintain optimal design and top notch quality.


Toyota is a close second in this - but too bad at Toyota the penny pinchers have greater power than the engineers - which shows in their product when compared to the Koreans.


Honda is terrible - they don't even know how to make a proper transmission.


The rest of other brands are bits n pieces sourced from different companies in different countries which is typical of globalisation.
Hyundai and Kia are not number one, they still have a lot to learn about building durable engines.
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Old 02-22-2019, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Central CT, sometimes NH.
3,341 posts, read 5,020,899 times
Reputation: 3190
I had two Toyota Highlanders with no problems. We no longer needed a vehicle that large so the last Highlander we traded for an Acura RDX. I like the acceleration of the 3.5 V6 but I do not like the transmission. The torque converter is constantly engaging/disengaging on secondary roads and is loud and can be felt quite clearly. I have had it checked out and the dealer says it is normal and that some other model years were worse. Sometimes it sounds like it is just going to drop out on the road. At certain speeds around 40 mph with slight variations in grade it is extremely irritating. We also have a Mazda CX-5 and it is one of the best driving vehicles I have ever owned. It is excellent in the snow, far better than any of the Subarus I had owned. However, it is our first Mazda and a few small things have cropped up at around 40,000 miles. One of the heated seats is not working properly anymore, one of the power window switches squeaks when cold, and the electronic emergency brake does not always properly disengaged when cold. Of course all 3 of these issues occurred shortly after the standard warranty. We never experienced anything like that with our Toyotas even at 120k. I hope these minor issues with the Mazda are the bulk of the problems because I really like the way the car drives and handles. It is the best driving car I have owned.

When we bought the Mazda we were looking for another Toyota. The problem at the time was that the models were old and outdated compared to competitors at the time. Obviously making the model for several years virtually unchanged has advantages in working out the kinks.
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Old 02-22-2019, 05:06 AM
 
Location: Podunk, IA
3,338 posts, read 1,513,096 times
Reputation: 3436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruz Azul Guy View Post
That supports my point that the Model 3 is such a new car that it’s silly to pass final judgment on it’s long-term reliability. Time will tell.
Teslas have been the most unreliable cars on the market since 2012.
Let's compare the Model S to what is generally considered to be the Gold Standard POS... FIAT.

https://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Mode...liability-1095
https://www.truedelta.com/Fiat-500/reliability-1014

Percentage of Average Repair Frequency:
Tesla Model S = 228%
FIAT 500 = 131%
By comparison, the generation of Camry that ended in 2017 is at 22%.

The Model S has been bad every year that they've made it, much worse than a FIAT.
You'd think that after seven model years they'd get the bugs worked out. It hasn't happened.
The Model X isn't any better.

What's foolish is to think that a company that's never made a reliable car is suddenly going to get it together.
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Old 02-22-2019, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
3,680 posts, read 1,027,535 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaton53 View Post
Teslas have been the most unreliable cars on the market since 2012.
Let's compare the Model S to what is generally considered to be the Gold Standard POS... FIAT.

https://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Mode...liability-1095
https://www.truedelta.com/Fiat-500/reliability-1014

Percentage of Average Repair Frequency:
Tesla Model S = 228%
FIAT 500 = 131%
By comparison, the generation of Camry that ended in 2017 is at 22%.

The Model S has been bad every year that they've made it, much worse than a FIAT.
You'd think that after seven model years they'd get the bugs worked out. It hasn't happened.
The Model X isn't any better.

What's foolish is to think that a company that's never made a reliable car is suddenly going to get it together.
Consumer Reports no longer recommends the Tesla Model 3
https://www.clickondetroit.com/autom...-tesla-model-3

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla...html?.tsrc=rss
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Old 02-22-2019, 07:55 AM
 
Location: SoCal
1,523 posts, read 3,253,986 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover View Post
Hyundai and Kia are not number one, they still have a lot to learn about building durable engines.
Based on my rental experience, Hyundai/ Kia consistenly feel the tightest, smoothest, most comfortable, best braking, best accelarting and most importantly by far with least wear n tear which means their of impeccable quality.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Floribama
14,216 posts, read 30,434,973 times
Reputation: 12877
Quote:
Originally Posted by yowps3 View Post
Based on my rental experience, Hyundai/ Kia consistenly feel the tightest, smoothest, most comfortable, best braking, best accelarting and most importantly by far with least wear n tear which means their of impeccable quality.
None of that means anything when it comes to long term reliability.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,806 posts, read 61,398,507 times
Reputation: 28974
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
Very true, it's been well over thirty years since the Dodge Caravan was introduced, a little bit sooner than its transmission was ready for prime time but Iacocca demanded they start selling them and even today there are people who claim they wouldn't buy one because the transmissions are no good, decades after they became bulletproof.
I would not buy one from the 1990s; A newer one, I would want to do some research. Chrysler continues to squeeze its suppliers to the point of sacrificing quality in some cases. It is better than it was, but I am not sure how much better or how global the improvement is.

Everyone squeezes their suppliers, but Chrysler is notorious for doing so to the extreme and still enjoys some of that notoriety. I think they finally admitted they are not capable of designing transmissions anymore and went to GM designs and/or ZF transmissions. At least for a while. They may have taken another run at designing their own recently, not sure. After all, once upon a time, they did produce one of the best automatic transmissions available for the time.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
25,806 posts, read 61,398,507 times
Reputation: 28974
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00molavi View Post
I don't have anything against Tesla but get back to us when you hit 200K miles.



I know of three Tesla Model X's between my friends that were bought back as lemons. Maybe it is a bad luck cluster in my immediate friend zone but still.



I think all new models are going to be more prone to issues. The data could help guide your decision but that's all there is, guidance. If you want a Jeep, you still have to buy one and deal with it.
Tesla is an idea/design company. Not a production company. They have no experience in accomplishing mass production at an affordable price while maintaining QC/QA. Manufacturing technology and know how (and psychology) is an entirely different science and business than designing cool cars.

Just like architects can design really cool buildings, but most are impossible to build for a practical cost without sacrificing quality. Cars are the same way, finding the balance between timing, quantity, cost, and quality is as or more involved than designing a vehicle and a production method.
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