Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-24-2019, 04:44 PM
 
9,332 posts, read 6,866,407 times
Reputation: 14736

Advertisements

Only in pickups.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-24-2019, 05:23 PM
 
Location: MN
6,388 posts, read 6,922,212 times
Reputation: 5678
Quote:
Originally Posted by NARFALICIOUS View Post
Don't think they've tried... so Ford wins large truck segment by default? Again, Japan for the most part is not trying to be in that space in the U.S. market.


Overall sales in U.S. are about the same, 200k less for Toyota by what I can see. But Toyota doesn't sell in the fleet space like Ford does
https://s22.q4cdn.com/857684434/file...Final.pptx.pdf
https://corporatenews.pressroom.toyo...ales+chart.htm

Globally Toyota is #1
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...cle_production
Corolla was top selling vehicle in the world last two years. Though it sold less in 2018 then 2017. The 2017 Silverado sold more in 2017 then 2018

https://focus2move.com/world-best-selling-car/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 05:42 PM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,894,969 times
Reputation: 2253
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
Well there are industry analysts who have created a method for measuring the mix of domestic vs foreign parts, and the links are based on their algorithm and findings.

I'm going to give them the "expert" status , I don't have that knowledge of the industry and I'd argue that simply because you work in the industry, that might only qualify you as an expert on your own brand.

I'm not saying that what you describe does not occur, as I have no way of knowing, but surely other people whose job it is to know, do know, and I would assume that if this practice were going on they would know that and account for it.

If you're implying that they know it, and still count that as domestically sourced, then that is indeed something that would skew the numbers , however, without evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume they aren't doing that, as it would clearly be unethical as a practice for analysts and consumer advocates to propagate a falsehood to the investment community and to their customers. In fact it might even be criminal if it affects investor behavior or was intended to. And if not criminal, then a civil violation given the fiduciary duties owed by analysts to their clients, who are PAYING them to get the facts, not blow smoke up their butt.
Those "experts" got it wrong because, quite frankly, they are politicians and not those with jobs in the automotive industry. Do you think every government mandate or policy is accurate and in the best interests of everyone, of course not.

In the example I gave you, those Asian parts that were shipped in all count as domestic content - that's the problem with the published AALA. How else can you explain a rule that has a Ford Fusion, which is built with the exact same parts by the same suppliers, yet scores a 20% domestic content score when built in Mexico and an 80% score when they were built in Flat Rock, MI. That's due to the impact of subassemblies and the fatal flaw with the AALA calculation.

Ford, GM and DCX lobbyists have fought for years to get that AALA calculation changed in regards to the way subassemblies are treated, but then you have the Japanese lobbyists on the other side of the fence fighting it. The Midwest politicians want it changed and the southern politicians don't. (Southern politicians cater to the Asians, of course, since they have plants there.) So at the end of the day they can never get a majority vote to change the rules. It's ridiculous that they let that stand...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 05:43 PM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,894,969 times
Reputation: 2253
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
According to what I have found:

Fiesta: less than 15% domestic parts and isn't made in the US at all.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/autom...e-america.html




Honda: has 4 models in the Top 10 Most American Cars index, all made here with high % of domestic parts

https://www.cars.com/articles/carsco...1420700348632/

https://autowise.com/10-american-cars-built-abroad/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/class...621-story.html
Wrong....you don't understand the subassembly parts loophole in the AALA domestic content calculation, obviously. I touched on this in posts #108 and #113 in this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 05:52 PM
 
2,376 posts, read 2,894,969 times
Reputation: 2253
Quote:
Originally Posted by phantompilot View Post
If you're implying that they know it, and still count that as domestically sourced, then that is indeed something that would skew the numbers , however, without evidence to the contrary, I'm going to assume they aren't doing that, as it would clearly be unethical as a practice for analysts and consumer advocates to propagate a falsehood to the investment community and to their customers. In fact it might even be criminal if it affects investor behavior or was intended to. And if not criminal, then a civil violation given the fiduciary duties owed by analysts to their clients, who are PAYING them to get the facts, not blow smoke up their butt.

As far as this part of your post, there is nothing criminal about it since they are allowed to report domestic content this way via the AALA Act. It's wrong and deceptive, and a lot of people know it, but until they actually change the law then this charade will continue.

It's exactly why third party companies like this were set up: About Us - Avanzar

It was done to save some labor cost (third party wages are cheaper than Toyota's own wages) and it also allows all those subassemblies to count as domestic content.

Do an aerial shot of the Toyota plant in San Antonio vs the F-150 plant in Kansas City. You'll notice all kinds of small buildings within a mile of the plant. (About 10-15 of them. Many of these are subassemblers.) With the Ford plant, all you'll see is 3 main buildings for Body, Paint and Final Assembly. They don't use subassemblers, they do it all inside their own plant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Newburyport, MA
11,867 posts, read 8,970,714 times
Reputation: 15159
The Big 3 sell a lot of cars in the USA. And they probably do make the best pickups and are very competitive on large SUVs. The Japanese make some very nice sedans, coupes, hatchbacks and sports cars, and they also seem to do (overall) a better job on reliability and fuel economy.... they've also made big inroads on small to midsize SUVs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,146 posts, read 33,197,505 times
Reputation: 35433
Quote:
Originally Posted by ipaper View Post
I understand what you are saying and all my trucks were bought new as well. Just saying that I had the opposite experience from what you had. I took very good of my things as well, and everything had slight mods done to them. Like cold are intakes and exhaust systems, and even replaced the headers on the Ram and Titan.
Not sure what to tell you. I still have a 89 GMC Sierra with almost400,000 miles n the original motor. Still runs today. Yeah it’s worn but hell its 30 years old and it’s been well used. But it’s stoneage simple as far as vehicles goes. It’s still a stone ax as far as vehicles go.

I had bad luck with dodge vehicles and nobody I know had a long lasting dodge. Nobody keeps them long enough. I have a buddy who is a dodge trans tech and he says he gets cars and trucks with 30k needing transmissions.
He drives a F350.
I won’t lie I had good luck with some GM products early in my life. But not all. I just know a lot of people who haven’t. My parents were huge GM buyers. Their cars were always at the dealer. They knew the service advisor by name. My mom would bake the dude muffins. Her Oldsmobile and later her Caddy were always needing something.
I don’t mod my cars. About the 9nly thing I do is maybe a Ca,per shell, witch bumper winch and maybe all terrain type tires for better traction. That’s pretty much it

I remember I was at a gas station a few years back. This young lady with a Chevy cobalt was gett8ng gas. New car paper plates. Gets in car won’t start. She asks me to look at it. I said it could be a stuck relay. I tapped the relay box under the hood. Car started. Ridiculous.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 06:56 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
1,690 posts, read 4,090,630 times
Reputation: 2691
I certainly don't. Japanese cars, even the ones made in the USA are superior in every way. The Japanese not only have better engineering and quality control, they are not saddled with the albatross of the UAW around their necks.

Hyundai/Kia have exceeded the quality of the lesser Japanese makes and are fast approaching the quality of Toyota and Honda.

It's no wonder Ford is running away from the sedan business as fast as it can. Cars cost way too much money these days to buy junk. GM is paring down and so is Fiat/Chrysler.

Talk a bout a match made in Hades, that's Fiat Chrysler. Marry the worst of the American car makers with the worst of Europe and their offspring could start a new "Omen"/"Rosemary's Baby"/"Exorcist" movie franchise. Linda Blair should be their spokesperson.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
3,631 posts, read 7,616,808 times
Reputation: 4371
I'm almost 50 and my generation will probably be the last to have experienced domestic auto makers absolutely dominating the US market at any point during their lifetime and I was a young child at that time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2019, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Floribama
18,923 posts, read 43,211,623 times
Reputation: 18717
I think as far as the body of the vehicle is concerned (rattles, squeaks, interior, fit and finish), the domestics have reached the level of the Japanese. Where they still seem to lag is the powertrain, I just don’t believe the engines, transmissions, and electrical systems are as high quality.

And when I say “Japanese” I’m excluding Nissan, their quality has went down the toilet since the merger with Renault.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top