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US consumers have proven time and time again, in many industries and especially cars, that they will buy foreign goods in large quantities. They sell a lot of trucks because they are better than the competition.
They sell a lot of trucks because
1. Fleet sales.
2. No competition in certain truck segments. If you want a 3/4-1 ton! You got three options. That’s it. And there is a lot of “I’m a gonna drive a ‘murican truck dammit” there is no denying it.
3. Domestics can pull out the rebate train and get people to buy their trucks. I rarely hear Toyota having huge rebates on trucks.
Due to my needs I’m stuck in a 3/4-1 ton market. So I dont have a lot of options unless I wanna drive a FL70. If I was in the market for a half ton today my first choice would probably be a Tundra. Although I would like to see a redesign. Second choice Ford Raptor. I’ll buy a a Titan before I spend a penny on a Chevy or Dodge truck
I'm pretty conviced Consumer Reports is paid off, because every time I ride in a Japanese vehicle I'm totally unimpressed. I hope GM and Ford don't go under, I have no interest in paying extra for the marketing of superior build and reliablility.
You've got to be kidding me. This statement has absolutely no basis in fact.
It absolutely is factual. You ever seen a torn down Sequoia side-by-side with an Expedition, Tahoe, etc? You ever measured and weighed each component piece by piece? You ever run those vehicles a million miles through Arizona deserts or arctic winters and measured the NVH inside the vehicle? You get the idea...
Well I have and seen the results of it first-hand. I know exactly where the Toyota falls short. That truck hasn't been updated since 2008. Toyota has basically left it for dead it seems like.
They sell a lot of trucks because
1. Fleet sales.
2. No competition in certain truck segments. If you want a 3/4-1 ton! You got three options. That’s it. And there is a lot of “I’m a gonna drive a ‘murican truck dammit” there is no denying it.
3. Domestics can pull out the rebate train and get people to buy their trucks. I rarely hear Toyota having huge rebates on trucks.
Due to my needs I’m stuck in a 3/4-1 ton market. So I dont have a lot of options unless I wanna drive a FL70. If I was in the market for a half ton today my first choice would probably be a Tundra. Although I would like to see a redesign. Second choice Ford Raptor. I’ll buy a a Titan before I spend a penny on a Chevy or Dodge truck
Even if you take out the fleet sales, which are very profitable and not give-away sales like some people think, the Ford, GM and Ram trucks still demolish the Tundra/Titan in retail sales.
#2 is such a tired act. People have no problems driving all kinds of Toyota and Nissan products so "dag gum it, I'm going to drive a 'murican car" doesn't seem to apply here. Half the people I know who have a Ford or Dodge pickup seem to have a wife who has an Accord or Sienna in their garage. They aren't American truck loyalists by any stretch, they buy them because they are the best.
Toyota's have plenty of incentives to knock down the price of their products. They just use hidden "Dealer Cash" as opposed to "Customer Cash" which is not as visible to the consumer. It's been done that way on the Japanese side for years. (Honestly I think that is a better approach, US dealers are too trained to sell the "Deal" and not their product and I think that hurts brand perception in the long run. That's one thing the Japanese dealers do right - use that cash to over-allow on trades, etc, and "protect the brand.")
Even if you take out the fleet sales, which are very profitable and not give-away sales like some people think, the Ford, GM and Ram trucks still demolish the Tundra/Titan in retail sales.
#2 is such a tired act. People have no problems driving all kinds of Toyota and Nissan products so "dag gum it, I'm going to drive a 'murican car" doesn't seem to apply here. Half the people I know who have a Ford or Dodge pickup seem to have a wife who has an Accord or Sienna in their garage. They aren't American truck loyalists by any stretch, they buy them because they are the best.
Toyota's have plenty of incentives to knock down the price of their products. They just use hidden "Dealer Cash" as opposed to "Customer Cash" which is not as visible to the consumer. It's been done that way on the Japanese side for years. (Honestly I think that is a better approach, US dealers are too trained to sell the "Deal" and not their product and I think that hurts brand perception in the long run. That's one thing the Japanese dealers do right - use that cash to over-allow on trades, etc, and "protect the brand.")
In my area Tundra may not outsell Ford and GM, but they certainly outsell Dodge/Ram.
In my area Tundra may not outsell Ford and GM, but they certainly outsell Dodge/Ram.
That may be as the Japanese companies have higher than average market shares in that part of the country. It's the 2nd most popular area for Japanese vehicle market share only behind California.
Even if you take out the fleet sales, which are very profitable and not give-away sales like some people think, the Ford, GM and Ram trucks still demolish the Tundra/Titan in retail sales.
#2 is such a tired act. People have no problems driving all kinds of Toyota and Nissan products so "dag gum it, I'm going to drive a 'murican car" doesn't seem to apply here. Half the people I know who have a Ford or Dodge pickup seem to have a wife who has an Accord or Sienna in their garage. They aren't American truck loyalists by any stretch, they buy them because they are the best.
Toyota's have plenty of incentives to knock down the price of their products. They just use hidden "Dealer Cash" as opposed to "Customer Cash" which is not as visible to the consumer. It's been done that way on the Japanese side for years. (Honestly I think that is a better approach, US dealers are too trained to sell the "Deal" and not their product and I think that hurts brand perception in the long run. That's one thing the Japanese dealers do right - use that cash to over-allow on trades, etc, and "protect the brand.")
There is really nothing currently that the Big 3 offer I would rush out and buy. Maybe a Raptor but that’s just to drive one. I can probably rent one and get it out of my system. I don’t think long term I would keep it. The truck I would seriously consider is a Superduty with the new 7.3 but that’s because it’s a pushrod motor which means I won’t have failing cam phasers, timing chain guides and I won’t touch a diesel today. And I would wait a few years to see if they got it right.
Right now Chevy has up to 10k in rebates Tundra has about 2500 total. 1500 customer cash 500 college rebate 500 military discount. They offer nowhere near the discounts GM does to move vehicles.
The reason i no longer cares about buying domestics isn’t because I’m not patriotic it’s because the product they make is simply not as reliable as the imports I purchased. Yes they have come a long way and the build quality has improved by leaps and bounds. It’s still just a little bit not enough.
GM killed people. Any company that says that it’s financially better to take a lawsuit over a recall tells me what they think about the customer base. I could care less if Chevy falls off the face of the earth. And since it’s my money I decide how I spend it
There is really nothing currently that the Big 3 offer I would rush out and buy. Maybe a Raptor but that’s just to drive one. I can probably rent one and get it out of my system. I don’t think long term I would keep it. The truck I would seriously consider is a Superduty with the new 7.3 but that’s because it’s a pushrod motor which means I won’t have failing cam phasers, timing chain guides and I won’t touch a diesel today. And I would wait a few years to see if they got it right.
Right now Chevy has up to 10k in rebates Tundra has about 2500 total. 1500 customer cash 500 college rebate 500 military discount. They offer nowhere near the discounts GM does to move vehicles.
The reason i no longer cares about buying domestics isn’t because I’m not patriotic it’s because the product they make is simply not as reliable as the imports I purchased. Yes they have come a long way and the build quality has improved by leaps and bounds. It’s still just a little bit not enough.
GM killed people. Any company that says that it’s financially better to take a lawsuit over a recall tells me what they think about the customer base. I could care less if Chevy falls off the face of the earth. And since it’s my money I decide how I spend it
Location: San Ramon, Seattle, Anchorage, Reykjavik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamweasel
It absolutely is factual. You ever seen a torn down Sequoia side-by-side with an Expedition, Tahoe, etc? You ever measured and weighed each component piece by piece? You ever run those vehicles a million miles through Arizona deserts or arctic winters and measured the NVH inside the vehicle? You get the idea...
Well I have and seen the results of it first-hand. I know exactly where the Toyota falls short. That truck hasn't been updated since 2008. Toyota has basically left it for dead it seems like.
That's why they don't sell...
I didn't, but I knew the guys at GM that did this. Which matters little.
I do know that what you describe is, based on my experience, much more likely for Big 3 vehicles than Toyotas. My baseline? I happen to own a Toyota 100 Series Land Cruiser which has spent it's almost 400k miles life driving offroad in the desert Southwest as well as all over central and south america, and arctic Canada and throughout Alaska. No rattles.
I also have a Toyota Tacoma with almost 650k miles on it. No rattles either.
Now, I will admit, my Toyota FJ60 Land Cruiser does have some rattles but it also has spent 225k miles driving off road since I bought it in 87 and it is basically a steel shed so there you have it.
I have also owned (although no longer) a Chevy K2500 Suburban that started falling apart the day I got it new off the dealer lot.
So, anecdotally, and in my personal experience, it's Toyota for the win.
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