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Yes, I am fully-aware. My #1 recommendation of all time (it has 6-speed auto) is actually Ford Fusion S with 2.5L I4 (base trim only) that is often more-reliable than Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, based on Consumer Reports' old 2008-2010 reliability rating. Still valid today for the most part.
Hyundai/Kia is currently working on to release Theta III with 2.5L I4 standard beginning with redesigned 2020 Sonata with 8-speed auto. They claim this will the first time ever since 2011 model year that they will get everything right on reliability, maybe exceeding Toyota Camry and Honda Accord once again. Time will tell... and I'm kind of bullish with Hyundai/Kia, actually.
For good reason, Walt. They're well-designed and solidly built cars. And the only Theta II engine problems being reported now in significant number for 2016s and newer are because of that silly recall campaign they did early this year to update the knock sensor detection system software. That has put lots of new cars out of commission unnecessarily, but that "upgrade" will never get near my 2017 Sonata.
For a while there, my confidence was shaken due to Hyundai's repeated letters and emails insisting I needed this "upgrade". But I decided to just ignore them and continue to enjoy my car's solid and, so far, flawless daily performance. I'm going to take it to a trusted independent shop soon for an oil change and ask their advice, based on their experience with Hyundais with this engine, on my upcoming lease purchase decision.
Putting aside this engine question (and I'm not sure there still is one), my view is that Hyundai/Kia stands out from the crowd in quality down to the finest detail.
Mazda or Hyundai Kia off the top of my head have conventional autos in at least some of their economy cars. Not sure if Hyundai/Kia offer CVTs, Mazda doesn't. Mazda3 would be my pick. I was happy with mine.
Yes, I am fully-aware. My #1 recommendation of all time (it has 6-speed auto) is actually Ford Fusion S with 2.5L I4 (base trim only) that is often more-reliable than Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, based on Consumer Reports' old 2008-2010 reliability rating. Still valid today for the most part.
Hyundai/Kia is currently working on to release Theta III with 2.5L I4 standard beginning with redesigned 2020 Sonata with 8-speed auto. They claim this will the first time ever since 2011 model year that they will get everything right on reliability, maybe exceeding Toyota Camry and Honda Accord once again. Time will tell... and I'm kind of bullish with Hyundai/Kia, actually.
You and I think alike. Those Fusion motors were pretty bulletproof, and the 6spd was pretty reliable too. As long as you don't get one with an early-gen Sync system...
I actually think the Theta II was corrected by the 2015 model year. Drastically less failures from 15 onwards, the biggest problem years were 11-13.
I'm 47 and I never learned to drive a stick. Not planning to now.
It takes about a half an hour with someone in a parking lot somewhere, then just driving for a little while. It is very easy to learn and becomes natural in no time.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normstad
Combines have been using CVT transmissions for over 50 years.
They kind of are time tested in tough conditions. They work.
True, and a VERY different application.
I LUV Hyrdo-stat and CVT on my combines used 6 weeks / yr (varying crop, grade, moisture conditions foot by foot. (metre by metre)) Economy is not a big deal when it drinks 100+ gal fuel / day anyway. And I expect refined performance in a $300,000 capital equipment specialized asset.
Same with Snowmobiles... Varying working conditions, and minimal economy requirements, and intermittent use (3 months / yr)
On a Economy car ?...
~Constant speed, light duty use, easy to maintain, robust, long service life (500k+ for my econo cars (nary a tranny problem))
4 cyl automatics, all CVT now?
I would expect a better application of technology and far better economy.
I would think DEAD simple (such as a 4-speed manual in Aluminum casing) would be great for customers (but would NOT generate revenue for needing repair / replacements).
Sure... with the right engineering and materials... even a CVT could work in an econo car. I would FIRST put them in Asia Taxis! When they prove their stuff... maybe roll them out to consumers. BTW... I really like Hyundai Diesel taxis! So do the drivers! (much quieter, cleaner , better performance, better economy than competitor vehicles) Too Bad Hyundai put a hold on their USA Diesel release.
70+ mpg on bio-fuels (grow your own) would be a really great step to significant USA emission reduction and national energy policy. Very ez to obtain these results.
We're past that now. Now that there are CVTs available that have been proven to be reliable, there's no need for test markets.
We the public, were the test markets. Some manufacturers have improved more than others. For the manufacturers, its a simpler, smaller design. They're easier to make, with fewer parts, and when they go wrong can cost you. A win win for them. I'll take a manual.
I actually think the Theta II was corrected by the 2015 model year. Drastically less failures from 15 onwards, the biggest problem years were 11-13.
According to carcomplaints.com, the Theta II engine problem did not fix completely until starting with 2019 model year at its final-year of production.
The older, previous Hyundai Beta engine (with cast-iron block) turned out to be much more-reliable and durable than any of Theta engines for all years (2006-2019), despite Hyundai already spending several billions of dollar of development for nothing.
Very shockingly, Chrysler's own World 2.4L engine (based on Hyundai's Theta I block) turns out to be more-reliable than Hyundai/Kia's Theta at the end, which currently powers the new (and only) Dodge Journey left. FCA redesigned the (once proven) 2.4L World into 2.4L Tigershark SOHC (from DOHC) with no Korean engineers involved to ensure quality, and reliability went down very fast. Tigershark engine currently suffers from oil burning design and bad sensor issues. Very sad...
Why does CVT bothers people so much? I used to have a Nissan Versa with CVT and didn't even know it had one until someone told me about it. It didn't drive any different than my previous cars without the CVT. So, what's all the hate toward CVT?
Agree! My 2013 Nissan Quest has 230,000 trouble free miles on it! We did have to reolace the bearing in the wheels....last week. Hubby was concerned it might have CVT issues....nope. I get the oil changed on regular intervals and I keep it well maintained. We have a Rogue, my Outback runs great ( still “new”)
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My #1 recommendation of all time (it has 6-speed auto) is actually Ford Fusion S with 2.5L I4 (base trim only) that is often more-reliable than Toyota Camry and Honda Accord, based on Consumer Reports' old 2008-2010 reliability rating. Still valid today for the most part.
