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Old 12-05-2009, 12:08 AM
 
Location: Northeast Tennessee
7,305 posts, read 28,223,011 times
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Well, my cars get better MPG with non-ethanol of course, but one one of my cars I had, when I used non-ethanol, it would leak gas (or at least omit gas fumes)... strange I know, but I could smell gas under the hood when I used non-ethanol gas. Repair shop could not find any leaks. Station I went to stopped selling non-ethanol gas and I started using 10% ethanol gas again and the smell went away and has never returned... not even a trace of gas smell under the hood... thats been several months. Strange.
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Old 12-05-2009, 12:41 PM
 
4,500 posts, read 12,342,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
It's worth noting that we calculate octane differently here. Most of the rest of the world just labels it with the research octane number (RON). Here in the U.S. we calculate octane by adding the research octane number plus the motor octane number, then divide the result by two [(RON+MON)/2]. A rough guide is to take the U.S. octane rating and add 4 to obtain the number used in the rest of the world. So what you call 95 octane, we actually call 91 octane. In the U.S. the highest octane usually on offer is anywhere from 91 (or 95 as you'd call it) to 93 octane (or 97 as you'd call it) depending on your geographic location. If you feel the highest available in your area is inadequate, a cheap and easy way to boost your octane is to add a bit of toluene.
I was unaware of that. Why is it then, that the US gas is of such inferior quality to (most) European and most certainly Japanese gas then?

Examples would be tuned Euro cars coming over for the Gumball Rally, (Tuned for 98 Octane though, so the 1 Octane difference shouldn't matter that much), struggles to get power, and runs rough.

A Koenigsegg CCX loses about 100hp when run on US fuel instead of EU fuel, so on and so forth.

Are there other reasons as to why American gas (mainstream pump gas, not high quality racing stuff etc.) underperforms?

I mean, there is a distinct smell difference for one, the gas I'm used to smells much more like pure race fuel than what you got in your pumps here (based on TX experience, when it comes to smell)
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Old 12-05-2009, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,166,939 times
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Well I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. To the best of my knowledge the CCX has the same 800HP rating both here and in Europe. And there are numerous gray-market cars from Europe and Japan plying our streets that don't "struggle to get power" or run rough. But if cars are tuned for the US equivalent of 94 octane and they're only getting 91, that may explain why they don't run optimally.
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Old 12-05-2009, 03:00 PM
 
4,500 posts, read 12,342,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Well I'm not sure where you're getting your information from. To the best of my knowledge the CCX has the same 800HP rating both here and in Europe. And there are numerous gray-market cars from Europe and Japan plying our streets that don't "struggle to get power" or run rough. But if cars are tuned for the US equivalent of 94 octane and they're only getting 91, that may explain why they don't run optimally.
Generally, octane ratings are higher in Europe than they are in North America and most other parts of the world. This is especially true when comparing the lowest available octane level in each country. In many parts of Europe, 95 RON (90-91 AKI) is the minimum available standard, with 97/98 RON being higher specification (being called Super Unleaded). The higher rating seen in Europe is an artifact of a different underlying measuring procedure. In most countries (including all of Europe and Australia) the "headline" octane that would be shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States and some other countries the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, sometimes called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), Road Octane Number (RdON), Pump Octane Number (PON), or (R+M)/2. Because of the 8 to 10 point difference noted above, this means that the octane in the United States will be about 4 to 5 points lower than the same fuel elsewhere: 87 octane fuel, the "regular" gasoline in Canada and the US, would be 91-92 in Europe. However most European pumps deliver 95 (RON) as "regular", equivalent to 90–91 US AKI=(R+M)/2, and deliver 98, 99 or 100 (RON) (93-94 AKI) labeled as Super Unleaded - thus regular petrol sold in much of Europe corresponds to premium sold in the United States.

I guess that kind of answered my question.

That said, cars like a Subaru Impreza Turbo (GC8 especially) that are grey imports are prone to having engine knock if not re-tuned to run on Euro 98 Ron(93-94 US), when imported from Japan to Europe. Running regular 95 Ron (90-91 US) is a big no no.

I guess the difference is that not all places here offer the US 93, which should be close enough to give the right amount (or close to) of power for cars made for/running on Euro 98 Ron.

Thanks for the info though, clarified some things.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:22 AM
 
3 posts, read 62,936 times
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So, if you see an octane of 92 or higher - then the odds are it does not have ethanol in it?
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:33 AM
 
Location: The land of Chicago
867 posts, read 2,139,610 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
I wish I could find gas around here without ethanol. Not gonna happen here in the Corn Belt.
.
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Old 03-19-2010, 11:55 AM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,961,276 times
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Kind of a older thread... For real gas with no ethenol try marina's. Since the ethenol is hydroscopic marina's don't like the stuff..
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Old 03-19-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Eastern Washington
17,216 posts, read 57,064,697 times
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Happily, in Eastern WA anyway many 76 and Conoco have non-ethanol gas. The first place I saw this was in the little town of Granger, one Conoco had "No Ethanol" on the reader board. From November to about February he was the only one, and I made it a point to buy ALL my gas from him. Now I have found several but so far only Conoco and associated brands.
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Old 03-21-2010, 03:22 AM
 
1,890 posts, read 2,653,495 times
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Any hope for non-ethanol on the east coast?
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Old 03-21-2010, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,166,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04JETTA View Post
.
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