my most hated automotive trend (brakes, exhaust, truck, selling)

[dee99ta]

1st, there is not a lot of profit in a 2 door pony type car(rwd, v8). What pays the bills are the v-6 model of those cars. That is why the mustang survived and the fbody(trans am, camaro) did not. Take the 2000 year model. Fbody vs. mustang, the Fbody blows it away HP and speed wise. But that didn't matter.

2nd, the G8 has a different market. 25-45 year olds(some with families). I have a trans am as my daily driver(it is paid for and doesn't get bad MPG), but it is NOT a car myself, wife and kids would jump in. The G8, we could, and it has pretty good performance to match. Not the rutheless performance of the trans am (mine is modified), but refined.

Make no mistake, it is not a honda civic ricemobile, it is a full size(big back seat) car that is an incredible highway machine that handles and brakes quite good.

Lastly, the g8 is NOT a sports car! It was never meant to be!

As for the pony cars, the market is much smaller now. We have spoiled kids that drool over a 4 cylinder rice rocket with a big fart can muffler. I know, they always try and race me, not worth my gas. I know there are some really fast ones, but many are modified heavily. I can spend the same amount on mine at be sitting on 600+ HP, no joke.

I for one, don't believe the new camaro is going to blow the market away.

[Linson]

Originally Posted by dee99ta

1st, there is not a lot of profit in a 2 door pony type car(rwd, v8). What pays the bills are the v-6 model of those cars. That is why the mustang survived and the fbody(trans am, camaro) did not. Take the 2000 year model. Fbody vs. mustang, the Fbody blows it away HP and speed wise. But that didn't matter.

2nd, the G8 has a different market. 25-45 year olds(some with families). I have a trans am as my daily driver(it is paid for and doesn't get bad MPG), but it is NOT a car myself, wife and kids would jump in. The G8, we could, and it has pretty good performance to match. Not the rutheless performance of the trans am (mine is modified), but refined.

Make no mistake, it is not a honda civic ricemobile, it is a full size(big back seat) car that is an incredible highway machine that handles and brakes quite good.

Lastly, the g8 is NOT a sports car! It was never meant to be!

As for the pony cars, the market is much smaller now. We have spoiled kids that drool over a 4 cylinder rice rocket with a big fart can muffler. I know, they always try and race me, not worth my gas. I know there are some really fast ones, but many are modified heavily. I can spend the same amount on mine at be sitting on 600+ HP, no joke.

I for one, don't believe the new camaro is going to blow the market away.

i agree with everything you just said. and feel the same way about the ricers - not worth my gas.

i understand why things are the way they are, but it still reflects a lack of vision by automakers, and i still hate it.

here's my Camaro...


1996 Camaro Z28
edelbrock torque arm
edelbrock lower control arms / relocation brackets
edelbrock shock tower brace
edelbrock panhard rod
competition engineering subframe conectors
addco 1 1/4" anti sway bar (front)
eibach springs
KYB shocks
baer brakes
17" 10-spoke SS wheels / BFG kdw 275/40/ZR17s

B&M 2400 stall converter
transgo shift kit
performance transmission rebuild

moroso CAI
granatelli MAF sensor
air foil
crane 1.6 roller rockers
march 3pc underdrive pullies
hypertech power programmer
edelbrock headers
flowmaster cat-back

still want:

fluidampr
BBK 52 mm throttle body
edelbrock LT1 intake manifold
mild cylinder head work
mild cam upgrade
fast chip programm
power antenna
3-peice rear spoiler (like the 6 cyl. RS's have)
a paint job...

here's my Firebird...


1967 Pontiac Firebird
Hotchkis Anti Sway Bar (front)
Hotchis Big Block Spring Kit (front)
Hotchkis Multi-Leaf Springs (rear)
Edelbrock IAS Shocks
Competition Engineering Subframe Connectors
Energy Suspension Bushing Kit. (Absolutely NO Rubber Under this car)
SSBC Power Disc Brake Kit (front) will probably upgrade to a Baer Kit (front and rear)

BOP TH350 Trans - Performance built to hold up to a 455
B&M Shift Kit
B&M 2200 RPM Stall Converter
B&M Hammer Shifter

Rechromed bumpers, new grills, trim, ect., xenon headlights

Pontiac 400 ci motor.
out of vehicle. will go back in when built.
no expense will be spared.

[southland]

I'm not a big fan of Pontiac's current products except for the G8 and the Solstice.

I'm starting to think that Saturn should replace Pontiac (and Buick) in the GM lineup as a more sporty upscale cars. One thing is for sure, Pontiac is pretty sad now without a real Firebird. I don't see why, with today's technology, they can't build a two door, stylish car (larger than the Solstice) on the G8 chassis....voila...a Firebird.

I'd have to say that what bothers me most about new car trends, however, are the retro themes. The Mustang and Mini Cooper look great, but where do they go from here when they need to redesign them?

[Drover]

I think Pontiac would do fine if they'd stop trying to rebadge a bunch of other decidedly non-performance crap as Pontiacs. I mean, why is there no G5 variation of the Cobalt SS? The "boredom" division of GM gets the hot version but the "performance/excitement" division doesn't? Same with the Camaro -- why no Firebird variation? And yet, Pontiac gets a version of the Chevy Aveo (aka Daewoo Kalos)? What the HELL is with that?

[sailordave]

Drover, but they did make a two door performance (choke) version of the G6. It's about as gaudy as the Pontiac of the 90s. Another option would have been to stretch the Solstice platform a few inches, drop in the 3.6L V6 for base model and V8 for upper model and call it a Firebird.

[Linson]

sorry, but the Firebird kinda has to be a variant of the Camaro.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by sailordave

Drover, but they did make a two door performance (choke) version of the G6. It's about as gaudy as the Pontiac of the 90s. Another option would have been to stretch the Solstice platform a few inches, drop in the 3.6L V6 for base model and V8 for upper model and call it a Firebird.

A car that small they'd be better off rebranding it the Fiero. Or just leave it as the Solstice. Not that it matters, the Solstice probably isn't long for this world anyhow. They lose money on each one they sell and they just don't have the resources to re-engineer the platform once the current one reaches the end of its product cycle.

[aussiehero123]

Linson, I suggest you learn your facts. You say you can't wait for the high performance 2 door purpose built Camaro, but you hate the boring, 4 door, lazy arse G8... It seems that you aren't aware that they are actually the same car with a different skin! The Pontiac G8 is just a Holden VE Commodore with a new hood (I agree the rams look a little stupid, but hey Americans asked for them. We get normal hoods here) and the Camaro has all the same internals with fresh bodywork.

That means the same engines, suspension and brakes. The only difference is the look and the number of doors. But both the G8 and the Camaro are good cars because they are built on solid foundations. The Commodore handles as well as the previous generation BMW 5 series, but with much more space and a better ride. It has properly good handling that rivals the best euro boxes.

But the more surprising thing is that you don't seem to recognise that car companies have been doing this the whole time. The original Dodge Charger may have had that huge 7 litre V8, but it still had regular sedan suspension, steering and brakes. Sure it was fast in a straight line - anything this side of a truck willl be with an engine that big - but it was completely random when it came to anything else. The Ford Mustang was the same; It was basically a Ford Falcon with new sheet metal. They were great to look at, but performed no better than the 4 doors they were based on.

Perhaps I am on my own - being an Aussie - but I actually like 4 door performance cars. Americans seem to prefer 2 doors. But they are all sports sedans and are designed to be domestic enough for everyday use yet hot enough to make a weekend drive exciting. If you don't like that, then go for a sports coupe like a Corvette and leave muscle cars to the people who enjoy them.

[sailordave]

aussiehero, I am so jealous of you downunder. I wish we still had the Ford Falcon. And for so many years it still had the inline six. I have no idea why Ford never decided to bring your Falcon over here. It would have probably taken away sales from the Mustang since it offered similiar or better performance while having more doors and more usable space.

[aussiehero123]

Our Falcon only shares the nameplate with yours. Since the 60s we've been designing it ourselves and today is the only car we produce that's fully engineered in Australia. The Commodore uses American GM engines and while the V8s sound great and go hard, the V6's are pathetic.

I think there's one main reason why America won't import the Falcon, and it's a crappy one... the Crown Victoria. Falcon would never compete against the mustang, even though it is a much better car, because it's a different class - 4 door sport sedan against a 2 door muscle car. The Crown Vic is a travesty of a car though. It still rides on a body-on-frame setup, a ye olde live rear axle and a crappy engine. It makes the car cheap to build and repair but it has no quality. And I daren't think about the fuel economy. But the Falcon is just as cheap and does so much more.

The Vic has a 4.6 litre V8 with some 224 hp in standard trim. The Falcon has a 4 litre straight 6 with 262 hp. Buy one of the turbo models, and it shoots up to 360 hp (or 415 hp for top of the line FPV model). Motoring reviews say the engine revs, sounds and is as smooth as any BMW straight 6. Same goes with the new FG Falcon's steering feedback - as good as any BMW - and handling is right up there too. But somehow, it manages to ride better than all BMW's and Audi's, beaten only by the biggest Mercs. And for an extra tidbit, the optional 6 speed auto is the same unit you'd find in most Jags, BMWs and Bentleys. Not bad for a fleet car... base model with a 5 speed auto is $38k (about $USD 27k)

Then you've got the upmarket models. The G6E Turbo is a eurocrusher. 0-62 mph in 5.1 sec in full leather and all the usual gizmos for $AUD 55k (less than $40k US even with your current financial crisis). BMW is the king of euro sport sedans, but to beat this thing off the line, you'd need an M3 or M5 - at 3 and 5 times the price respectively. None of the standard Bimmers can match it. And it looks the part too... check this review.

2008 Ford Falcon G6E Turbo test drive review road test pricing and specifications

Yeah it does **** me off that America won't import it because it certainly deserves an international audience. Most mags here say it's better than the Commodore/G8 so it's certainly capable of penetrating the market. But I don't think Americans would appreciate being in a taxi that rides and handles better than their own car. Even so, I don't get why Ford America won't take it on, because they own Ford Australia anyway...

Final note on the FPV F6... the hyper version of this turbo 6... it's faster from 80-120 km/h than a 911 Turbo for just $65k. Suck that, Germans!! lol