my most hated automotive trend

[Deez Nuttz]

Originally Posted by tstone

Someone told me those vent holes sometimes tell you how many cylinders your car has. So you see that LeSabre with 3 holes on either side, that's a V6. Tahoe has 4 on each side, so V8.

True or False?

False. The 1987 GNX came factory with 4 holes per side, yet the car only had a V6.

Here's my take on this rather old topic.

I am going to side with Linson here. I believe that GM has gotten away from the "let's build a car for the youth" market. I mean step back to 1970....there was something for everyone. Chevy offered a high performance SS package on just about every car they made. Buick had a stump pulling GSX. Olds had the almost as torquey W-30 442. Pontiac had an array of muscle. Slowly over the years they killed it off, leaving the Camaro and Firebird which the plug was pulled in '02 leaving the Vette which is really a car for mid life crisis 40 year olds so they say.

Ford sort of did the same thing with some of their other models (Torino, Cougar, etc.) but at least kept the Mustang alive the whole time. And they've offered the Mustang in different flavors.

Chrysler really got out of the "kids car" game back in the 70's. Both them and GM are trying to make a comeback.

But really, Pontiac....it's demise is the real killer...Pontiac was supposed to be the line that made all the really cool stuff....like Trans AM's, GTO's and such....not Azteks and Vibes...no wonder they're going under.

Now as for the G8, while not my favorite body style, I will say this....even if it's a 4 door at least it's better than all the FWD 4 and 6 cylinder junk cracker boxes they have been pumping out...at least it's a RWD V8. The body style really isn't all that bad...ALOT BETTER than the new Charger...OMG! The new Charger is a dececration of the old Charger name.

Quite honestly I wouldn't mind having a G8 myself except I hear you get to knock your noggin on the roof when you get in and out of it...like you do on a 2004-06 GTO.

There was once a time before the muscle car era where GM was devoted to making family cars.....and I believe that's what they're trying to return to doing.

But if I had my say in it, I think GM should return to the early 70's: offer a pony car for the kids, a mid sized car for a family, then offer a full size for those who want to really go big, then offer a compact. And build them to last forever instead of being ready for the junkyard as soon as the loan is paid off.

[Linson]

wow. i remember this thread. what i was talking about was this:

[12GO]

Originally Posted by Deez Nuttz

False. The 1987 GNX came factory with 4 holes per side, yet the car only had a V6.

Here's my take on this rather old topic.

I am going to side with Linson here. I believe that GM has gotten away from the "let's build a car for the youth" market. I mean step back to 1970....there was something for everyone. Chevy offered a high performance SS package on just about every car they made. Buick had a stump pulling GSX. Olds had the almost as torquey W-30 442. Pontiac had an array of muscle. Slowly over the years they killed it off, leaving the Camaro and Firebird which the plug was pulled in '02 leaving the Vette which is really a car for mid life crisis 40 year olds so they say.

Ford sort of did the same thing with some of their other models (Torino, Cougar, etc.) but at least kept the Mustang alive the whole time. And they've offered the Mustang in different flavors.

Chrysler really got out of the "kids car" game back in the 70's. Both them and GM are trying to make a comeback.

But really, Pontiac....it's demise is the real killer...Pontiac was supposed to be the line that made all the really cool stuff....like Trans AM's, GTO's and such....not Azteks and Vibes...no wonder they're going under.

Now as for the G8, while not my favorite body style, I will say this....even if it's a 4 door at least it's better than all the FWD 4 and 6 cylinder junk cracker boxes they have been pumping out...at least it's a RWD V8. The body style really isn't all that bad...ALOT BETTER than the new Charger...OMG! The new Charger is a dececration of the old Charger name.

Quite honestly I wouldn't mind having a G8 myself except I hear you get to knock your noggin on the roof when you get in and out of it...like you do on a 2004-06 GTO.

There was once a time before the muscle car era where GM was devoted to making family cars.....and I believe that's what they're trying to return to doing.

But if I had my say in it, I think GM should return to the early 70's: offer a pony car for the kids, a mid sized car for a family, then offer a full size for those who want to really go big, then offer a compact. And build them to last forever instead of being ready for the junkyard as soon as the loan is paid off.

Notice also who took over running the company? Bean counters instead of the engineers. I agree, if they would do this again, build this level of vehicle selection, that gm would again own over 50 percent of the market. Give the divisions their own engines and character again, and you'd see Pontiac Olds bought back and selling a million vehicles a year from every division.
Bunkie Knudsen said it best; "You can sell an old man a young mans car, but you will never sell an old man's car to a young man".
When gm lost that vision, and started making slugs with small sbc's under the hood of everything, they lost their base for existence.

[Tennesseestorm]

Originally Posted by Linson

my most hated automotive trend is this: GM, particularly Pontiac's new line of performance vehicles. i.e. boring, ugly, sedans with performance car engines.

I think the big Pontiac sedan should be more like a luxury car (like the overseas Chevy Caprice version of this car is).

Not a sports car. No wonder Pontiac is going down the tubes... remember when they offered all of those different models...

now they offer like 3 and all are sports cars...



What happened to the luxurious Bonnevilles/Grand Villes I used to know? These were ALL good cars from Pontiac.

1996


1993


1987


1979 Bonneville Brougham


1978 Bonneville Brougham


(1972 Grand Ville)


1972 Bonneville


1960 Bonneville

[Drover]

There are actually 7 cars in the Pontiac lineup. Exactly one of them is a sports car, and only one of the 6 others lives up to the brand's performance pretension. And that's the problem with Pontiac in a nutshell.

[sean sean sean sean]

Tennessee - Those '92-'95 Bonnevilles were really sharp cars, the '96 restyle was a step backwards IMO. Even the interior was dramatically better than most GM models of the time. I see 3800 V6 powered vehicles with over 200,000 miles on them constantly....great motor, especially the supercharged version that came in the Bonnie SSEi.

I had an '89 Bonneville LE very briefly, same burgundy/silver color as the one you posted except with the mesh wheels and a vinyl top. I liked that car a lot and I would have held onto it, but someone offered me 2x what I had paid for it a week earlier!

[Tennesseestorm]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

Tennessee - Those '92-'95 Bonnevilles were really sharp cars, the '96 restyle was a step backwards IMO. Even the interior was dramatically better than most GM models of the time. I see 3800 V6 powered vehicles with over 200,000 miles on them constantly....great motor, especially the supercharged version that came in the Bonnie SSEi.

I had an '89 Bonneville LE very briefly, same burgundy/silver color as the one you posted except with the mesh wheels and a vinyl top. I liked that car a lot and I would have held onto it, but someone offered me 2x what I had paid for it a week earlier!

I agree... that 96 redesign was not applausable. I liked the 1992-95 better as well!

Those 87-91 Bonnevilles were good cars... good engines too. Same body style as the 86-91 LeSabre and Delta 88. Some of the best GM cars made in the late 80s.

I know a older man at work with a 1988 Delta 88 that had over 350K miles!

[Steve-o]

(^)Well thats because the 3800 is one of the best engines ever made. My grandparents have owned two Bonnevilles with 3800s, both were bulletproof.

[12GO]

Tn.storm, that 78 Bonneville is exactly like the 1 my Parents had. Dad bought it because it still had a 400 Pontiac in it. Then they went on Vacation and left it in the Garage (they were renting a moving van to help my uncle move from Ca back to Mo.) so I got under the hood. Never said a word to them. Dad comes in about 2 days after they were back, and says, " I like what you did to the Bonnie. But why did you?" I got rid of the egr intake and put a 70 4bbl intake on it, added 1.65 rockers, and removed the cat. convertor, & recurved the distributor with my own modified weights on the mech side along with an adjustible vacuum advance. That car got 21 mpg after that and would bark second when on it.

[GTOlover]

Originally Posted by Deez Nuttz

False. The 1987 GNX came factory with 4 holes per side, yet the car only had a V6.

Here's my take on this rather old topic.

I am going to side with Linson here. I believe that GM has gotten away from the "let's build a car for the youth" market. I mean step back to 1970....there was something for everyone. Chevy offered a high performance SS package on just about every car they made. Buick had a stump pulling GSX. Olds had the almost as torquey W-30 442. Pontiac had an array of muscle. Slowly over the years they killed it off, leaving the Camaro and Firebird which the plug was pulled in '02 leaving the Vette which is really a car for mid life crisis 40 year olds so they say.

Ford sort of did the same thing with some of their other models (Torino, Cougar, etc.) but at least kept the Mustang alive the whole time. And they've offered the Mustang in different flavors.

Chrysler really got out of the "kids car" game back in the 70's. Both them and GM are trying to make a comeback.

But really, Pontiac....it's demise is the real killer...Pontiac was supposed to be the line that made all the really cool stuff....like Trans AM's, GTO's and such....not Azteks and Vibes...no wonder they're going under.

Now as for the G8, while not my favorite body style, I will say this....even if it's a 4 door at least it's better than all the FWD 4 and 6 cylinder junk cracker boxes they have been pumping out...at least it's a RWD V8. The body style really isn't all that bad...ALOT BETTER than the new Charger...OMG! The new Charger is a dececration of the old Charger name.

Quite honestly I wouldn't mind having a G8 myself except I hear you get to knock your noggin on the roof when you get in and out of it...like you do on a 2004-06 GTO.

There was once a time before the muscle car era where GM was devoted to making family cars.....and I believe that's what they're trying to return to doing.

But if I had my say in it, I think GM should return to the early 70's: offer a pony car for the kids, a mid sized car for a family, then offer a full size for those who want to really go big, then offer a compact. And build them to last forever instead of being ready for the junkyard as soon as the loan is paid off.

next yeat at thre track I would love to line up my some what modded LS2 05 GTO with 60K miles with a 2010 Camaro SS with and see what happens.