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Old 12-03-2008, 07:52 AM
 
Location: Cortland, Ohio
3,170 posts, read 6,507,277 times
Reputation: 1318
[quote=NYMD67;6403015]If they work OT they make more money and the funny thing is, in today's economy,companies such as GM and their ex-parent company; Delphi, seem to have plenty of OT going around for their employees.
If they are on the brinks of being bankrupt (and Delphi already is and asking GM to help them out), why do they continue to pay their employees these high wages,pay them OT rates ,pay them for not even working,etc... ?
Everyone certainly deserves to make a decent living,but these people don't deserve to be making the incomes that they are when there are teachers in our country who help our children,sceintists who went to college and Graduate school to work for companies that help find cures for cancer,etc... QUOTE]

OT, huh? That's funny!!! I used to work for Delphi here in Warren (which was profitable, BTW, unlike the rest of Delphi) and i only got overtime once in 7 years!!!! I know several people that work for GM Lordstown and their suppliers and NO ONE is getting overtime. They were working saturdays earlier this year to keep up w/the demand for the Cobalt, but now istead of pumping out extra cars they've layed off 1,100 people at GM Lordstown alone.

BTW, any hourly worker in America that works over 40 hours gets overtime, it's a law! If demand requires that someone work over that 40 hour mark it's good for the company and the employee.

As for the high wages, there is NO ONE at Delphi making $28/hr anymore. New hires make $10.50/hr (more than i can make w/my degree at the moment) and long time employees make around $16. I also believe skilled trades makes about $22/hr.

I agree that $28/hr is a little excessive, but surely people should get more than $10-14/hr. Autoworkers in 1973 were making around $5/hr, which w/inflation comes out to about $22/hr. I don't see anything wrong w/that, especially when the estimated wage of foreign car assembly workers is around $25/hr.

I agree w/IrishTom, at least GM and the other automakers are paying a living wage and taking care of their employees. It's sad that the rest of America's employers don't treat their employees that well. I'm going to graduate w/my BBA in Management in a week. You know what kind of jobs i'm looking at???? $10/hr, unless i move south.......oh wait, they are losing jobs down there too. A college degree is a piece of paper that "MAY" get you an interview.

It's time Americans quit tearing each other down! Why can't we be happy that someone makes a good wage???? Instead of wanting things to get worse for everyone, why not try to make things better for you and your family??? Just because other industries, businesses, etc. don't pay what they should in wages and benefits doesn't mean that we should knock everyone else to such a low standard of living. It's like we are running a race to the bottom, America! Real wages are declining..........it's time to wake up and see the big picture. This country IS NOT headed in the right direction.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,810 posts, read 2,533,899 times
Reputation: 1847
No, I actually don't believe that going to college should entitle anyone to a superior living, what I believe is that everyone should be granted fair wages. Making $80K a year to work on an auto line seems a bit excessive when yes,there are teachers,scientists,social workers,etc... who make sometimes, half that amount of money. I did say in my previous post that I believe everyone deserves to make a DECENT living, and to me,a teacher,should not have to go look for a part time job to feed their family or keep up with life in general while there are others who sometimes are NOT EVEN working but yet still making more money than that teacher is. That is the truth, they do in fact make almost 90% of their pay at times for doing basically; nothing.
Yes,there are "bad" teachers out there and there are lazy workers to be found in any workplace,my point is simply,that if these companies are looking for people to bail them out of their situation,then yes, they need to cut these ridiculous wages they earn,they need to stop paying them during their layoff times (or stop paying them so much) OR the people who work for these generous wages with the UAW should stop complaining.
This said because simply,there are quite a few families who live in our neighborhood who work for the UAW and constantly,constantly seem to be laid off because of "lack of work" ,yet these people are still being paid,to either go to work and sit around to play cards or to be at home,complaining about how they dont' get this or that from their employer. They should be grateful because some of their neighbors who ARE going to work and actually working,sometimes 60-70 hours a week (and being paid for 40) are still struggling with today's economy.
So no, going to college should not grant you a superior living,but it should grant you the ability to only have to work one job.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Texas
27,821 posts, read 22,332,962 times
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What gets me is the $30 an hour people make for not working.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,810 posts, read 2,533,899 times
Reputation: 1847
OT, huh? That's funny!!! I used to work for Delphi here in Warren (which was profitable, BTW, unlike the rest of Delphi) and i only got overtime once in 7 years!!!! I know several people that work for GM Lordstown and their suppliers and NO ONE is getting overtime. They were working saturdays earlier this year to keep up w/the demand for the Cobalt, but now istead of pumping out extra cars they've layed off 1,100 people at GM Lordstown alone.


Well, we know quite a few people here who work for the UAW and quite a few in Western,NY who are constantly working OT. Constantly. Almost at least 3-4x a week they are being asked to either come in early or stay later on their shifts. This could be because of loss of other employees,turnover,etc... I am not sure the reasons,but they are indeed,working many,many hours of OT.
Please don't take offense to this,I would never want anyone to not make a decent living, my point is that many of these people complain and complain but yet there are just to many people in other job markets (as you stated yourself) who are not making fair wages. That is not "your" fault nor is it mine, it is the way that the markets are. What you left out with the wage decreases for those folks at DELPHI are that they are also receiving some type of lump payment are they not ? To make up the difference in their wages,for approx. 3 years. I don't know all the details,but my neighbors were very open about what happened with them and I seem to remember them talking about that.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Cortland, Ohio
3,170 posts, read 6,507,277 times
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First of all, i don't know any autoworkers that make $80k. Most make around $50-$60k. I'm not saying that that isn't excessive, just stating a fact. The only people that I personally know (and trust me, i know a lot) that make more than the average are skilled trades workers. When i was at Delphi I knew of an electrican that made around $70k when he got overtime and i know of other skilled workers that made in the $80-$100k range, with overtime. Once again, at Delphi, skilled trades does not make this kind of money anymore. They make around $22/hr w/probably no overtime now. I know that the regular hourly employees are not getting overtime. Overtime means times are good..........either that or a supplier, engineering, or management made a big mistake.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
1,810 posts, read 2,533,899 times
Reputation: 1847
You should talk to some fellow employees from DELPHI in Lockport and Rochester,NY then, they are working OT. ALOT of OT.
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:15 AM
 
16,623 posts, read 13,527,178 times
Reputation: 11444
I don't care what the Big 3 choose to pay their workers. That's their business.

I have a problem when they make it my business, by going to the federal government for tax dollars. I don't want to support a broken business model because a bunch of people in the midwest think they are entitled to some totally arbitrary level of compensation.

And before somebody tries to turn this into a class war, no, I don't support the financial bailout either.

Last edited by le roi; 12-03-2008 at 08:23 AM..
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Old 12-03-2008, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Cortland, Ohio
3,170 posts, read 6,507,277 times
Reputation: 1318
Yes, thanks to the union they did get lump sum payments, just as i did when i saw the writing on the wall and took a buyout. I believe they got $30k/year for three years to take over a $10/hr wage cut. This was to help them get adjusted to the new wages so that they wouldn't lose their houses, etc.

I do realize that people complain, i used to work w/a bunch of them! haha! I don't care what the job, most people complain. I suppose you would complain too if you had to take a wage cut of around 30%, ouch! When you make a certain wage and your standard of living is based on that wage, a cut like that can be a shock to the system.

As for me, i worked for a plant represented by the IUE-CWA. When i started i made 55% of top wage, had less and cheaper benefits, etc. Every year i got a raise and i was happy to work there. I knew i was lucky to make what i was making, especially living in the rustbelt. Because our area is so depressed, i worked on the line w/several college grads, because Delphi wages paid more than the other jobs around here. I'm sure things are the same in W.NY........i know our regions are very similar. If the rest of the country thinks this recession is bad, they have never lived in the rustbelt. Our economy has been in the crapper for about 30 years now, we're used to this. I guess the one good thing about it is that we are already somewhat prepared to survive when things get worse, where as the rest of the country isn't. Trust me people, things are going to get worse, much worse, and if the Big 3 goes down we can kiss our a**es goodbye.
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Old 12-03-2008, 09:13 AM
 
5,974 posts, read 3,307,894 times
Reputation: 1614
Quote:
Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79 View Post
i know our regions are very similar. If the rest of the country thinks this recession is bad, they have never lived in the rustbelt. Our economy has been in the crapper for about 30 years now, we're used to this.
The good thing about the rust belt is that there are still some well paying jobs to be found. In Florida the wages are crap and so are the jobs.
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Old 12-03-2008, 07:40 PM
 
Location: A far, far better place
1,874 posts, read 1,832,163 times
Reputation: 1212
[quote=sunsprit;6400711Well, not exactly, either. There's a lot of offshore content in those USA assembled vehicles, and there's a lot of the cars badged as big three cars that are built in Mexico and Canada, or were imported from overseas.[/quote]

There's also a lot of offshore content in those foreign-branded but North American-built vehicles.

I did a quick google on the foreign content in both Detroit 3 vehicles and in Foreign vehicles assembled in North America.

As of 2006, the average domestic content of all Detroit 3 vehicles built in North America has dropped to about 75% or 80%, depending on whether you use the yardstick used by the Environmental Protection Agency's or the American Automobile Labelling Act of 1992. At the same time, the average domestic content of all foreign company vehicles assembled in North America has risen to about 65%.

As of 2008, a sampling of domestic content looks like this:
Ford F-150: 80% domestic content, down from 90% for '07
Chevrolet Silverado 1500: 85% for '08, down from 90% for '07
Toyota Camry/Solara: 68% for '08, down from 78% for '07
Honda Accord: 60% for '08, down from 65% for '07
Toyota Corolla: 50% for '09, down from 65% for '08
Toyota Matrix: 65% for '09, down from 75% for '08
Dodge Ram: 68% for '08, down from 72% for '07
Honda Pilot: 70% for '09, same as '08
Honda Civic: 70% for '08, up from 55% for '07

At best, the Detroit 3 vehicles contain more domestic content than foreign vehicles built in North America...at worst, it's a wash.
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