Opinions: Toyota Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, KIA RIO5, and Saturn Astra (minivans, best)

[motormaker]

Originally Posted by annerk

I went and looked at the Vibe, Matrix, and Astra yesterday. I've ruled out the Astra as the rear seats don't lay flat. I'm leaning towards the Matrix because Toyota is offering the best deal--which is really surprising!

The Astra rear seats might lay flat, take a look at this pix, granted it's 2008.

Oh and the speedo goes to 160.

Saturn | 2008 ASTRA Hatchback Photo Gallery | Car Pictures

[annerk]

Originally Posted by motormaker

The Astra rear seats might lay flat, take a look at this pix, granted it's 2008.

Oh and the speedo goes to 160.

Saturn | 2008 ASTRA Hatchback Photo Gallery | Car Pictures

They do not lay flat. We were at the dealer yesterday, and regardless of what we did, they went down on a 10-15 degree angle, not flat. Having them on an angle and not laying flush with the rest of the cargo space does me no good when I want that space to haul my large dog around in. I might as well keep the car I have and let him have the back seat, because he's got as much room in that as he would in the back of the Astra the way it's configured. Even the sale people at the dealership said that was as far flat as they got.

Also the car seat tethers are mounted on the back of the seat, not recessed into it, so there are 2.5" by 2.5" lumps sticking out of the tilted floor when you lay the seat down. Just bad engineering and a lot of things that seem like they were afterthoughts in order to bring the car into the American market.

We were also disapointed with the car having only one front cup holder, which while not a deal breaker was one of many odds and ends that made the car unacceptable for our needs.

[motormaker]

OK. I'm with ya. Never looked at the car up close as I was interested in the Outlook. Just looked at the pix from the Saturn site.

Note, many back seats don't lay perfectly flat like you are looking for, just so ya know.

Good luck in your search.

[AlfredB1979]

Originally Posted by Steve_TN

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but with Pontiac being discontinued, won't there be pretty sweet deals on new Vibes the closer we get to the final days? If so, that could be an excellent opportunity, since a Vibe can always be repaired at any Toyota dealer.

Define "pretty sweet deals".

Those dealer already paid for those cars that are on their lots, so there aren't any 2 for 1 type giveaways if that is what you are getting at.

[compelled to reply]

None of the above, VW Rabbit all the way. If you liked the Astra (aside from the seat folding issue), you will absolutely love the Rabbit. The interior is top notch and is no comparison to any other car within $10,000 of it, let alone Matrix or Astra. The power is also much better than anything else in that class (170 HP), and if you thought the Astra felt like a tank, you will really enjoy the solidity of the Rabbit. It also has a six speed auto (as opposed to the typical four in that class) and a sport mode that actually works, which is something you usually see on a 30+ thousand dollar car. The cargo room is incredible and you get IMO a better car for around the same price as anything else. Unlike some of the other hatchbacks in it's class, the Rabbit is actually enjoyable to drive IMO. It doesn't even feel like it's in the same class as a Matrix or a Rio5. The biggest problem with VW in general is reliability, but that hasn't been an issue with the Jetta/Rabbit for this generation, and the fuel economy is also a little low but the power is unbeatable for the class. I wouldn't even waste my time with any other hatchback for under 20k.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by compelled to reply

None of the above, VW Rabbit all the way. If you liked the Astra (aside from the seat folding issue), you will absolutely love the Rabbit. The interior is top notch and is no comparison to any other car within $10,000 of it, let alone Matrix or Astra. The power is also much better than anything else in that class (170 HP), and if you thought the Astra felt like a tank, you will really enjoy the solidity of the Rabbit. It also has a six speed auto (as opposed to the typical four in that class) and a sport mode that actually works, which is something you usually see on a 30+ thousand dollar car. The cargo room is incredible and you get IMO a better car for around the same price as anything else. Unlike some of the other hatchbacks in it's class, the Rabbit is actually enjoyable to drive IMO. It doesn't even feel like it's in the same class as a Matrix or a Rio5. The biggest problem with VW in general is reliability, but that hasn't been an issue with the Jetta/Rabbit for this generation, and the fuel economy is also a little low but the power is unbeatable for the class. I wouldn't even waste my time with any other hatchback for under 20k.

I had a beyond terrible customer service experience with them in 1999 and would never buy another. In fact my experience was so bad that I traded in my 14 month old Jetta, lost money on it, and was still glad to be rid of it so I never had to deal with VW of America again.

I live in flat Florida, I don't drive like a loon, and have no desire for a gas guzzling vehicle because it has a big "powerful" engine.

By the way, Toyota is well known for it's reliability--much more so than VW.

[Steve_TN]

Originally Posted by AlfredB1979

Define "pretty sweet deals".

Those dealer already paid for those cars that are on their lots, so there aren't any 2 for 1 type giveaways if that is what you are getting at.

No, I'm not thinking 2 for 1 type deals. I was just thinking an additional 1K or so on top of existing rebates. I'm fully aware that the dealer has already paid for those vehicles on their lots and I'm not an idiot if that is what YOU were getting at.

[Bigg Mann]

I did not read every post but did you consider maybe a vehicle like the Scion XB or Honda Element. I think the seats fold flat, not positive, and the front passenger folds flat too.

I considered one myself but have to long of a back and to close to ceiling.

[annerk]

Originally Posted by Bigg Mann

I did not read every post but did you consider maybe a vehicle like the Scion XB or Honda Element. I think the seats fold flat, not positive, and the front passenger folds flat too.

I considered one myself but have to long of a back and to close to ceiling.

I think Scion's are butt ugly. The Element starts at over my top price, and if I wanted an SUV I wouldn't have narrowed my choices to what I did.

[f_m]

Originally Posted by Bigg Mann

I did not read every post but did you consider maybe a vehicle like the Scion XB or Honda Element. I think the seats fold flat, not positive, and the front passenger folds flat too.

I considered one myself but have to long of a back and to close to ceiling.

They are supposed to release a dog version of the Element later this year, similar to this concept. The car is still "unique" as far as the styling goes, though it is the only car with washable interior (that I'm aware of).

Honda Element's special features are for the dogs