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Old 02-28-2012, 04:30 AM
 
Location: Wellsville, Glurt County
2,846 posts, read 6,299,989 times
Reputation: 1310

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Quote:
Originally Posted by frankgn87 View Post
I would consider the GN as one of 'cars of today'.. Due to the fact of the forced induction, ecm controlled F.I. and the other technological features of the car. I wanted something different and I can tell ya that I am have way more fun rowing the gears with the top down in the Mustang..
The Grand National is a lot of things, and definitely an awesome ride... but no car with frame-on-body construction could ever be considered a "car of today". Forced induction and EFI were technological wizardry in the 1970s (and have been around even longer than that), they've been standard fare for a looooong time now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez Nuttz View Post
On top of having to sometimes run expensive high octane racing fuel, a typical a/c compressor will not live under the high rpms these engines will see the most of.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't A/C compressor clutches designed to cut out at WOT to prevent damage? I had a '69 Pontiac that worked like that... not sure if they were building them that way throughout the 1960s or if it was a fairly new/rare innovation for '69, but at this point I figure if you're building a motor from back then where there's enough power to do that kinda damage - most often it's gonna be one where the A/C components have long deteriorated anyway. I can't imagine there are too many 40+ year old cars running around with a still-working A/C system where the motor is just now being built up for the first time!!

I completely agree with what you're saying, just pointing out that at in 2012 anybody who wants both big power from a 60s powerplant and working A/C is probably installing a modern compressor anyway!
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:43 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,785 posts, read 10,522,527 times
Reputation: 2152
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
I have no dog in this fight whatsoever, but I did wanna mention that I've always thought the early 390s were very cool for their time. In 1961, Ford debuted the 390 dealer option tri-carb setup that was allegedly good for 401hp going head-to-head with Chevy's brand new 409 making 1hp/cubic inch (all SAE Gross, of course). Pretty good year for big blocks and fullsize cars! Also fairly amazing technology for the time, considering that ten years earlier Straight-8s and flatheads were still pretty much the norm. Chevy's big block was undoubtedly better, but I love the sleek looks of those '61-'62 Fords...

Question for the Ford guys - was the 427 SOHC ever available in a factory product you could buy at a dealership, or was it purely a racing engine sold over the counter?

I agree about the early 390's. They are unrated today.. The SOHC 427 was not put in any factory Ford.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:45 AM
 
16,448 posts, read 10,864,974 times
Reputation: 9208
No contest. Rat motor rules.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:50 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,785 posts, read 10,522,527 times
Reputation: 2152
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
The Grand National is a lot of things, and definitely an awesome ride... but no car with frame-on-body construction could ever be considered a "car of today". Forced induction and EFI were technological wizardry in the 1970s (and have been around even longer than that), they've been standard fare for a looooong time now...
You obviously know very little about the Buick turbo 3.8. For the time there was no other GM engine with the technology of this engine, with its distributor less single coil ignition that was controlled by an ecm that could in turn tune and adjust the engine parameters in relation to atmospheric pressure, temperature, throttle position, transmission status, etc. Very advanced for the time,. Remember, this was the mid 80's. There were many other features of this mill that made it groundbreaking for the time too.
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:53 AM
 
16,448 posts, read 10,864,974 times
Reputation: 9208
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrench409 View Post
The 409 still enjoys a following.

Use a 427 or 454 crank, add a set of aluminum heads (and or even a block), and you have one wild screaming engine.
It can never breathe as well as the Rat motor. The 348/409 has the combustion chamber in the piston tops and is allmost a flathead design. Yes, the 409 will produce good power (we used to run an A Stock 409 HP '62 back in the day) but the 396/427/454 is a much superior design. I also ran a '66 427 in A Stock and it was a full second quicker with a single carb than we ever did with the dual X 4 carb 409.
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Old 02-28-2012, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Earth
4,214 posts, read 12,153,019 times
Reputation: 2035
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't A/C compressor clutches designed to cut out at WOT to prevent damage? I had a '69 Pontiac that worked like that... not sure if they were building them that way throughout the 1960s or if it was a fairly new/rare innovation for '69, but at this point I figure if you're building a motor from back then where there's enough power to do that kinda damage - most often it's gonna be one where the A/C components have long deteriorated anyway. I can't imagine there are too many 40+ year old cars running around with a still-working A/C system where the motor is just now being built up for the first time!!

I completely agree with what you're saying, just pointing out that at in 2012 anybody who wants both big power from a 60s powerplant and working A/C is probably installing a modern compressor anyway!
Not sure if they had clutches that would cut out back then...I know on my 87 T it has a high cut out switch on it that opens the path of current to the a/c compressor clutch when you mat the loud pedal.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Fairfax, VA
2,035 posts, read 935,678 times
Reputation: 1103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishtom29 View Post
If you mean which was faster back in the old days it would be the 396. A 396 would run away from a 390 in a comparable sized Ford, Bisacyne vs. Galaxy for instance. The 390 would run with a 327 though.

My 1968 Ford Galaxy XL had a 390.
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:11 PM
 
Location: My little patch of Earth
5,219 posts, read 2,094,482 times
Reputation: 2226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bideshi View Post
It can never breathe as well as the Rat motor. The 348/409 has the combustion chamber in the piston tops and is allmost a flathead design. Yes, the 409 will produce good power (we used to run an A Stock 409 HP '62 back in the day) but the 396/427/454 is a much superior design. I also ran a '66 427 in A Stock and it was a full second quicker with a single carb than we ever did with the dual X 4 carb 409.
True, the breathing was a factor. Improvements in cam and piston design have changed. And the Z-11 top end was a great improvement. Shame Chevy pulled out of racing back then (well officially on paper that is). Chevy had some trick stuff up their sleeves on the W and Mark IV in the early days.

Here's a link to some interesting '09's and cars.

`62 Bel Air (build pictures) | 348-409.com Info Exchange Forum
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:26 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
7,785 posts, read 10,522,527 times
Reputation: 2152
Quote:
Originally Posted by LetsRock View Post
My 1968 Ford Galaxy XL had a 390.
Did you mean a Galaxie?
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:03 PM
 
15,230 posts, read 7,668,541 times
Reputation: 7527
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
Question for the Ford guys - was the 427 SOHC ever available in a factory product you could buy at a dealership, or was it purely a racing engine sold over the counter?
while the 427 SOHC motor was never put in a production ford from the factory, you could buy certain full size fords and order up the 427 SOHC motor, and have the dealer install it for you.
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