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Re reading the OP post inclined to think the car is missing or not firing on all cyls. All it takes is one dead cyl and the engine will shudder with lack of power. Could be firing and not firing under a load.
Thank you to you as well.
That's a lot of info for someone like me who knows almost nothing about cars but i appreciate it and will re-read it.
I didn't mention that i had my engine replace in 2005 due to the fact that the '97 outback had an issue with something or other ... i can't remember.
I remember the word "cracked block".
ANyway, they replaced my engine and did a fine job and the work is guaranteed for a very long time which is one of the reasons that i want to maintain a good relationship with them.
I'll make copies of your post and that of the other mechanic and take it with me as reference ... i hope that doesn't offend them.
Ah, you've been down that path before with the head gaskets on this 4-cam motor. When the head gasket(s) fail, the motor readily overheats and it's very common the cylinder heads to warp ... and also have the block crack in the very thin web of material by the cylinder head where the water passages are located. At that point, you're looking at a replacement motor, which is a fairly costly item (although, thankfully, the labor to R&R it is relatively minor) ... so I can well understand your loyalty to the shop that did this work for you with a longer term warranty.
Did they install a Subie factory motor, a used serviceable motor, or a factory exchange rebuilt motor? If it was a used motor, or a rebuilt motor, there may have been hidden issues with the heads/head gaskets in it that took a couple of years to show up.
Knowing that you have a warranty with this motor should be a big help in resolving any issues with it at this time. These are simple cars to work on, and a competent tech should be able to properly diagnose the problems with it with basic automotive diagnostic equipment ... he doesn't have to be a Subie specialist to do this, it's all basic.
Ah, you've been down that path before with the head gaskets on this 4-cam motor. When the head gasket(s) fail, the motor readily overheats and it's very common the cylinder heads to warp ... and also have the block crack in the very thin web of material by the cylinder head where the water passages are located. At that point, you're looking at a replacement motor, which is a fairly costly item (although, thankfully, the labor to R&R it is relatively minor) ... so I can well understand your loyalty to the shop that did this work for you with a longer term warranty.
Did they install a Subie factory motor, a used serviceable motor, or a factory exchange rebuilt motor? If it was a used motor, or a rebuilt motor, there may have been hidden issues with the heads/head gaskets in it that took a couple of years to show up.
Knowing that you have a warranty with this motor should be a big help in resolving any issues with it at this time. These are simple cars to work on, and a competent tech should be able to properly diagnose the problems with it with basic automotive diagnostic equipment ... he doesn't have to be a Subie specialist to do this, it's all basic.
It was a brand new subaru engine.
It was a costly piece of work but they did a great job and i've never had any problems with my car or with my mechanics.
My car has about 126,000 miles on it and on the new engine there's probably about 50,000 (or a bit less) miles on it.
This is just a weird thing happening.
I talked to the head mechanic and i'm going to bring the car in tomorrow morning and test drive it with him and then he's going to be the one working on it.
Over the phone i mentioned all the things that the mechanics on this thread suggested may be wrong and he said that the guy who worked on it yesterday spent 4 hours with the car and covered all those things mentioned, cleaned the spark plug off, test drove it and said it was running fine again.
But it's not.
So that's what concerns me ... why are they not feeling this most obvious problem?
I am, granted, super sensitive to my car and notice every little thing (even though i don't know what any of those every little things are) and i drive a lot with many miles spent on the open road and this issue is just so obvious.
But i still have to go test drive it again tomorrow with the head mechanic which i don't mind doing but i just don't get why i need to point such glaring problem out to him.
I just hope no permanent damage has been done.
My guy friend who knows cars said, no, it's mechanical and it can be fixed.
So we'll hope for the best and i'll keep you posted.
This thread has been really helpful to me. Thank you everyone.
Re reading the OP post inclined to think the car is missing or not firing on all cyls. All it takes is one dead cyl and the engine will shudder with lack of power. Could be firing and not firing under a load.
that's what it feels like even though i don't know cars ... like something is not making a complete connection if that's what you mean.
what do you mean by "could be firing and not firing under a load"?
it shudders most obviously on the highway and, like i said, when my foot is on the gas.
but even at slower speeds .... around 25 ... leaving a parking lot and driving up a slight incline on the road for example ... it doesn't shutter as much but it still feels like it's "missing" ... not connecting.
once i get going and move up to 30mph, it stops although even when cruising at 40 for example it just doean't feel smooth or right though it's really subtle.
but i'm like the princess and the pea.
i notice stuff.
I have to really wander why the Op took it in for a tune up. Wre you having a problems/ It just seems strnage that if they are good mechinic why the second time they didn't check for codes. I now alot of shop that can do simple things right;but bascialy are pretty hunt and peck with anyhting that is not common on these cars now days with so much computer controls and emissions.
Ah, you've been down that path before with the head gaskets on this 4-cam motor. When the head gasket(s) fail, the motor readily overheats and it's very common the cylinder heads to warp ... and also have the block crack in the very thin web of material by the cylinder head where the water passages are located. At that point, you're looking at a replacement motor, which is a fairly costly item (although, thankfully, the labor to R&R it is relatively minor) ... so I can well understand your loyalty to the shop that did this work for you with a longer term warranty.
Did they install a Subie factory motor, a used serviceable motor, or a factory exchange rebuilt motor? If it was a used motor, or a rebuilt motor, there may have been hidden issues with the heads/head gaskets in it that took a couple of years to show up.
Knowing that you have a warranty with this motor should be a big help in resolving any issues with it at this time. These are simple cars to work on, and a competent tech should be able to properly diagnose the problems with it with basic automotive diagnostic equipment ... he doesn't have to be a Subie specialist to do this, it's all basic.
Yep my friend in Vail with a 97 outback didn't heed the words from the mechanic to change the head gasket and a few months ago blew the engine to bits.
All engines have to fire (spk plug igniting) in a proper sequence. Each plug fires (ignites ) the gas as a piston reaches the top of the stroke next to the head (called compression stroke). If the spk plug were to ignite the gas at the wrong point or a spk plug were to ignite at the wrong cyl it was not supposed too then you would have a shudder...running on 3 instead of 4 cyls or on 5 instead of 6 cyls etc.
On a 8 cyl example 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 would be the normal rotation. Now if it fired on #1 and then skipped to # 5 instead of # 8 then there would be a shudder or shaking on the engine/car due to the misfire. The same principle would be involved were it a 4 cly...6 cyl etc.
Trying to give a lay persons answer without to much technology. Look at a clock...12 numbers...maybe a 12 cyl engine. The center is turning as the engine runs and a spark may jump to different cyls like the 8 cyl example I gave. The distributer or Electonic Ignition works like a clock turning to the right but the number for the cyls are staggered and not in correct order like the clock. If a spk goes to the wrong cyl a shudder will show. Mechanics call this "cross fire"...meaning a spk plug firing on a cyl when it is NOT supposed too. Hard to explain something to a person without the car/engine being in front of them.
All engines have to fire (spk plug igniting) in a proper sequence. Each plug fires (ignites ) the gas as a piston reaches the top of the stroke next to the head (called compression stroke). If the spk plug were to ignite the gas at the wrong point or a spk plug were to ignite at the wrong cyl it was not supposed too then you would have a shudder...running on 3 instead of 4 cyls or on 5 instead of 6 cyls etc.
On a 8 cyl example 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 would be the normal rotation. Now if it fired on #1 and then skipped to # 5 instead of # 8 then there would be a shudder or shaking on the engine/car due to the misfire. The same principle would be involved were it a 4 cly...6 cyl etc.
Trying to give a lay persons answer without to much technology. Look at a clock...12 numbers...maybe a 12 cyl engine. The center is turning as the engine runs and a spark may jump to different cyls like the 8 cyl example I gave. The distributer or Electonic Ignition works like a clock turning to the right but the number for the cyls are staggered and not in correct order like the clock. If a spk goes to the wrong cyl a shudder will show. Mechanics call this "cross fire"...meaning a spk plug firing on a cyl when it is NOT supposed too. Hard to explain something to a person without the car/engine being in front of them.
I know my stuff but a Teacher...I ain't.
Hope I answered a little.
Steve
Steve, good general info ... but the Subie has individual ignition ports for the spark plug wires to the respective 4 cylinders. There is no distributor, and it's very obvious which sparkplug wire goes to which cylinder ... there's two ports at the two ignition coils for each side of the motor, and the front coil goes to the front cylinder, and the rear coil goes to the rear cylinder.
So there's no chance of improper sequence at a distributor ... which would also cause a continuous hard miss on two cylinders of a four cylinder motor, which would be more than a slight miss that would be very low on power all the time. And set misfiring codes for the cylinders in the computer, and the check engine light would be on, alerting the driver that there was a problem. The possibility of cross-firing due to adjacent spark plug wires is rather minimal, given the spacing between the wires in the normal routing and the typical very heavy duty wire harness (either factory or aftermarket) which is supplied for these motors. But the possibility of a broken/cracked wire end to the plug, especially at the back cylinders, is a real concern because these are a bear to get in and out with this motor in the chassis. (FWIW, I won't do this work with the motor in the chassis ... I pull them when it's time to replace plugs, adjust valves, and replace timing belts. I know this sounds like a lot of work, but these motors almost fall out of the chassis in a little over an hour ... kind'a like pulling an air-cooled bug motor, it's pretty simple).
Even though the replacement motor was a factory Subie motor, it's still possible that it has the failing head gasket problem at this time. Not the fault of the techs working on it ... but I hope the warranty is in effect for whatever repairs are needed.
I doubt that the OP is being too sensitive about how the car is running ... these motors are very smooth runners, and when they're not running right it's pretty noticeable. Especially to somebody acclimated to their car.
Hoping here that the lead tech will pull the codes and get a handle on the situation, or find what may be an obvious mechanical fault with the motor.
I have a 96 Subie Outback Wagon with the 2.5 l engine. I noted it was using a little coolant and I could smell some over heated coolant. I had the head gaskets replaced before the engine fried. The mechanic noticed a sleigh discoloration on the right rear cylinder head where the gasket was failing. This has been the only major repair on the car for the last 6 years. It now has 168,000 miles. We are pleased.
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