Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Alright, I recently purchased a 2000 Volvo S70 glt around memorial day. On July 17th, in preparation of a 300 mile roadtrip, I had a franchised service location, which I didn't know at the time mattered but apparently if you sell firestone tires you can put their name on the front of your establishment, give me a full service oil change. I made it almost all the way to my desitination. As soon as I exited the highway, I had thick white smoke coming from the exhaust. My engine oil was just sitting there. Took it to a Volvo dealership. After their diagnosis, they told me I needed my Turbo replaced. After the time it took to order and have the work done, the car still had the smoke coming from the exhaust. The service team now changed their diagnosis to my motor being blown. The head of the service department has stated they firmly believe the oil change franchise is to blame for negligence. Even after considering things could have happened by chance, they felt there were just too many irregularities. Plus on the receipt from the oil change it shows they gave me 5 quarts and not the 7.25 my vehicle requires. I understand some places don't fully empty all the old out but this is not stated on my receipt.
I've been going thru the run around between the dealership where I purchased the vehicle, sans warranty...(i know! but there were other circumstances contributing to my deal). They stated that there wasn't much they could do without his shop being able to physically see/diagnose the vehicle. I explained that all this happened 300 miles away, and I'm not paying for the tow because its too expensive!!
The franchised lube place has been the worse, and that was to be expected however. However, from our last discussion they are claiming no fault. Leaving me to find resources for small claims court or the states attorney. I don't want to spend the money I need to save to fix the car on lawyer fees. And I need to have the vehicle repaired, versus leaving it, because of my sensitive credit that in the beginning of all this and currently I am working feverishly hard to repair.
Bad situation I know. I am just at a point where I need any break I can get. The dealership where the vehicle is at right now are doing their best to work with me. Not charging me storage fees and he's priced all repairs and taxes at $6300 for me. Which from my research isn't a bad deal. Obviously, the normal person doesn't just have that money sitting around.
What would you do? What am I overlooking? Will the Illinois Stats Attorney be helpful, or am I just putting the franchise on some vague bad business reputation list? This has really brought me down. I've put my family out by borrowing their vehicles, traveling back and forth between home and my car. Any information would be helpful!!!
if they in fact filled the engine with 5 quarts of oil, and your engine requires 7.25, they underfilled it. even if there is a small amount left during an oil change, it is absolutely not 2.25 quarts worth (more like .5 quarts). if you have a receipt proving they underfilled the oil, of course they are going to deny fault, but that's as strong of proof as you can get.
further, if the engine was low on oil, that can certainly lead to problems such as a blown turbo or even engine failure because oil has multiple functions. one is of course lubrication. another is cooling, or more precisely heat absorption. if the oil is low, it will absorb more heat than it can handle, which will overheat the oil, which then breaks the oil down and it loses its lubrication properties. next thing you know you have a blown turbo because the turbo first got too hot and then didn't get lubricated.
by the way, white smoke out of the exhaust, especially during deceleration, is a sign of a blown turbo.
next, $6300 is a giant, enormous price to spend on a car that is worth about that all on its own. that sounds like they are quoting a rebuilt block and turbo from the OEM. if the dealership has not purchased an engine yet you should absolutely suggest they find a used one. i can't imagine that even on the high side, a used engine for this car would cost more than a grand or two, and figure another grand for diagnosis and installation.
also, i spent a few years working at a volvo dealership, i can count the number of times i've seen an engine replaced or even repaired internally on one hand. i remember one that ran dry of oil, which got a junkyard motor replacement, and another that had some problem like a bad head gasket. so the engines are absolutely durable and a used one should be a good bet.
It would be hard to win your case since you have not proof as to anything being related to the shop that did the oil change. I would ask the mechanics at the dealership that your car is in if they can prove that the problem with your car had anything to do with the oil change. If they tell you that the 2 quarts short of oil can cause whatever your problem is then ask them if they can put that down in writing and keep the document you have stating that they only put 5 quarts in the vehicle.
Yovanilla has stated that the white smoke is a sign of a bad turbo but I still think they should have looked at the motor further to make sure that there was nothing wrong with the engine before changing the turbo. If they did this and found the engine to be bad they could have at least saved you some labor costs by doing this job all at once. I do not know how much I would trust the place where your vehicle is at this point either. They obviously misdiagnosed your problem by telling you that the turbo needed to be changed. Was the turbo bad and they fixed it figuring that was your only problem or did they guess that the turbo was bad and then after changing it realized that it was not the problem and now are guessing that the engine is bad?
White smoke can also mean there is coolant mixing in with the fuel which tends to be something more like a head gasket or some other problem that would allow the coolant into the combustion chamber. Oil smoke is generally blue as it gets mixed in with the fuel in the combustion chamber. It is possible that towing it somewhere else for a second opinion may be in order. I know that the cost of the tow is a problem but it can save you money in the long run if the place your car is at now is actually wrong. As yovanilla state, you could have overheated the engine which may have actually made a head gasket go and even warped the head but the bottom half of the engine may still be good. If another place does diagnose the same problem at least you have the peace of mind that the diagnosis is correct. If you do go for a second opinion I would simply tell them that you took it somewhere else and they changed the turbo and that you still have the same problem. I would NOT tell them they diagnosed it as a blown motor afterwards since they may just tell you the same thing trying to get a big money engine job for themselves.
A little bit of advise that will not help you now but may help someone else in the future is to ALWAYS check your oil level if you let ANY shop or dealership or other person do an oil change for you. I had an oil change done to my Excursion by a Ford dealer and I checked the level and it was fine. When I arrived at home I checked under the truck to make sure they changed the oil filter and found that the oil plug to the oil pan was loose. It was dripping oil lightly and I was able to turn the threaded oil plug easily by hand. I generally do all work and maintenance on my vehicles myself but this time I decided to let the dealership do the oil change since I had it there for a fuel filter change that was only $5.00 more than if I did it myself. I have now decided to just do everything myself so that I know it is done and done right.
I feel bad about your situation but I really do suggest getting a second opinion on the diagnosis.
White smoke generally means coolant mixing in with the fuel which tends to be something more like a head gasket or some other problem that would allow the coolant into the combustion chamber. Oil smoke is generally blue as it gets mixed in with the fuel in the combustion chamber. It is possible that towing it somewhere else for a second opinion may be in order. I know that the cost of the tow is a problem but it can save you money in the long run if the place your car is at now is actually wrong. If they do diagnose the same problem at least you have the peace of mind that the diagnosis is correct. If you do go for a second opinion I would simply tell them that you took it somewhere else and they changed the turbo and that you still have the same problem. I would NOT tell them they diagnosed it as a blown motor afterwards since they may just tell you the same thing trying to get a big money engine job for themselves.
white smoke can be from oil and isn't uncommon on a turbocharged engine, which can definitely mean a blown turbo. if it is steamy white that points to a head gasket. if it is smoky white (and usually coupled with oil residue on the back of the bumper by the exhaust pipe) that is normally oil.
white smoke can be from oil and isn't uncommon on a turbocharged engine, which can definitely mean a blown turbo. if it is steamy white that points to a head gasket. if it is smoky white (and usually coupled with oil residue on the back of the bumper by the exhaust pipe) that is normally oil.
Yes; I actually edited my post after posting it and reading it over again. I have worked on many different vehicles even some with turbos but have not actually had the opportunity to work on a vehicle with a turbo problem as of yet. I have a turbo on my diesel Excursion but have not had any problems with the turbo on there yet either.
I have read posts that you have had in the past and definitely find you to be quite knowledgeable with things I know about so I do trust what you say about the turbos blowing white smoke is true and would not question it at all.
I applaud you for posting with things you are knowledgeable about and for setting the record straight on the turbo blowing white smoke with oil residue.
I am curious to see if you agree that once they changed the turbo and now that it is still pushing white smoke that it may be a problem with just the heads and not that the entire engine is junk. I am not familiar with this car and do not know if the entire block is aluminum either. I trust that you would be able to answer this.
Well my first guess is that the since the dealership believed the turbo was blown, the signs pointed towards that instead of a bad head gasket for instance (which they then would have dug into first). Assuming a proper diagnosis. The poster said:
Quote:
As soon as I exited the highway, I had thick white smoke coming from the exhaust. My engine oil was just sitting there.
Which makes me think it happened upon deceleration when the boost goes to vacuum, and I don't know what he means by the oil just sitting there but I can guess that means it was all over the bumper. Which should point right to a blown turbo.
Since we don't have much information beyond that... I would hope they removed the turbo and examined it before ordering a new one (for instance just by shaking it you'd probably hear the turbine shaft loose or a bearing rattling around). If that is so and that didn't fix it... I mean there could be multiple failures here. The valves could be burnt up and/or the valve guides too which could lead to oil shooting through. We just don't know without more info.
I'd like the original poster to chime in and tell us what else the dealer said: is the oil sludged? What reason exactly did they give to first replace the turbo and then the engine? Did they open up the engine, check the main bearings or the valve train? Also did the engine feel like it always did, or was it down on power?
Wow, these responses are all very helpful. Sorry its taken me so long to respond, I'm at work. When I originally took the vehicle in they made it very clear that it was the turbo, and only the turbo. The engine wasn't mentioned on their behalf, and due to my ignorance I never thought to ask about it.
I also questioned their practices, and their response was that they would need to repair the turbo first to know it was the engine? Word for word, also. With this model, the turbo is placed outside the actual engine unlike other models.
While I was driving before exiting the highway, there were no lights on in the vehicle. I didnt experience any loss of power, and the car didn't seem to overheat. They never stated there was any sludge or anything like that in the oil.
Searching for a better priced motor does like a very safe option
Alright, I recently purchased a 2000 Volvo S70 glt around memorial day. On July 17th, in preparation of a 300 mile roadtrip, I had a franchised service location, which I didn't know at the time mattered but apparently if you sell firestone tires you can put their name on the front of your establishment, give me a full service oil change. I made it almost all the way to my desitination. As soon as I exited the highway, I had thick white smoke coming from the exhaust. My engine oil was just sitting there. Took it to a Volvo dealership. After their diagnosis, they told me I needed my Turbo replaced. After the time it took to order and have the work done, the car still had the smoke coming from the exhaust. The service team now changed their diagnosis to my motor being blown. The head of the service department has stated they firmly believe the oil change franchise is to blame for negligence. Even after considering things could have happened by chance, they felt there were just too many irregularities. Plus on the receipt from the oil change it shows they gave me 5 quarts and not the 7.25 my vehicle requires. I understand some places don't fully empty all the old out but this is not stated on my receipt.
I've been going thru the run around between the dealership where I purchased the vehicle, sans warranty...(i know! but there were other circumstances contributing to my deal). They stated that there wasn't much they could do without his shop being able to physically see/diagnose the vehicle. I explained that all this happened 300 miles away, and I'm not paying for the tow because its too expensive!!
The franchised lube place has been the worse, and that was to be expected however. However, from our last discussion they are claiming no fault. Leaving me to find resources for small claims court or the states attorney. I don't want to spend the money I need to save to fix the car on lawyer fees. And I need to have the vehicle repaired, versus leaving it, because of my sensitive credit that in the beginning of all this and currently I am working feverishly hard to repair.
Bad situation I know. I am just at a point where I need any break I can get. The dealership where the vehicle is at right now are doing their best to work with me. Not charging me storage fees and he's priced all repairs and taxes at $6300 for me. Which from my research isn't a bad deal. Obviously, the normal person doesn't just have that money sitting around.
What would you do? What am I overlooking? Will the Illinois Stats Attorney be helpful, or am I just putting the franchise on some vague bad business reputation list? This has really brought me down. I've put my family out by borrowing their vehicles, traveling back and forth between home and my car. Any information would be helpful!!!
Well, anything is possible. What exactly were you told was wrong with the engine? I know that you were told it's bad, but what specifically were you told caused it to go bad? Is it oil smoke or coolant? What amount of oil remained in the crankcase after the incident?
The price is pretty big for an engine replacement. Because the Volvo 5 cylinder engines rarely fail, there should be many used ones available from wrecks. Was the service quote for a used engine? It seems high for an engine transplant on that model.
I also recommend checking the car over thoroughly after having work done. Even if you don't know much about cars, it's never too late to learn a few things, at least enough to do a once-over.
Well, anything is possible. What exactly were you told was wrong with the engine? I know that you were told it's bad, but what specifically were you told caused it to go bad? Is it oil smoke or coolant? What amount of oil remained in the crankcase after the incident?
The price is pretty big for an engine replacement. Because the Volvo 5 cylinder engines rarely fail, there should be many used ones available from wrecks. Was the service quote for a used engine? It seems high for an engine transplant on that model.
I also recommend checking the car over thoroughly after having work done. Even if you don't know much about cars, it's never too late to learn a few things, at least enough to do a once-over.
2nd Opinion is needed. Even if it turns out to be the engine the price to way too high.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
