Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't know how this bum all of a sudden became such a martyr after he was canned. When he was CEO, the press was certainly critical of his performance.
That "bum" was almost single-handedly responsible for the turnaround in GM's product quality. He was willing to actually take a gamble instead of continuing to play it safe and settle for "adequate" cars. Unfortunately the credit crunch turned his gamble into a losing one for the time being, but IMO Wagoner's stewardship will pay dividends for GM in the long-term. Even the rank and file was pissed off when he got run out on a rail to make room for an Obama puppet.
That "bum" was almost single-handedly responsible for the turnaround in GM's product quality. He was willing to actually take a gamble instead of continuing to play it safe and settle for "adequate" cars. Unfortunately the credit crunch turned his gamble into a losing one for the time being, but IMO Wagoner's stewardship will pay dividends for GM in the long-term. Even the rank and file was pissed off when he got run out on a rail to make room for an Obama puppet.
Very valid point, Drover . . . beautifully stated.
That "bum" was almost single-handedly responsible for the turnaround in GM's product quality. He was willing to actually take a gamble instead of continuing to play it safe and settle for "adequate" cars. Unfortunately the credit crunch turned his gamble into a losing one for the time being, but IMO Wagoner's stewardship will pay dividends for GM in the long-term. Even the rank and file was pissed off when he got run out on a rail to make room for an Obama puppet.
I tried to rep you for this, but I couldnt, I have to spread some around first. Oh well, its the thought that counts, right?
That "bum" was almost single-handedly responsible for the turnaround in GM's product quality.
What quality turnaround? I think we're putting the cart before the horse making a statement like that. I've been a GM loyalist, and my experience has been that initial quality has always been at least decent. But, let's see some long-term quality before we shower Wagoner with accolades. The critically acclaimed Malibu hasn't been on the road long enough to truly declare it a quality breakthrough from GM.
What quality turnaround? I think we're putting the cart before the horse making a statement like that. I've been a GM loyalist, and my experience has been that initial quality has always been at least decent. But, let's see some long-term quality before we shower Wagoner with accolades. The critically acclaimed Malibu hasn't been on the road long enough to truly declare it a quality breakthrough from GM.
You're thinking only in terms of long-term reliability. That has been improving as well. But I'm also talking about the quality of construction, quality of materials, the driving dynamics, NVH issues, overall fit and finish, etc. Plus, they are finally building competitive drivelines again, from the ecotec all the way up to the LS9, and decent transmissions with an appropriate number of gears to match. In this regard, GM has come a long way -- in other words, GM is finally starting to build vehicles people would want to buy in the first place whereas before their cars were boring and dull and ugly compared to competitors regardless of respective reliability rankings. And yes, the Malibu has been on the road long enough to know if it's a dud or not. The Epsilon platform has been in service for 9 model years now and its most recent driveline has been in service for 6 years.
You're thinking only in terms of long-term reliability. That has been improving as well. But I'm also talking about the quality of construction, quality of materials, the driving dynamics, NVH issues, overall fit and finish, etc. Plus, they are finally building competitive drivelines again, from the ecotec all the way up to the LS9, and decent transmissions with an appropriate number of gears to match. In this regard, GM has come a long way -- in other words, GM is finally starting to build vehicles people would want to buy in the first place whereas before their cars were boring and dull and ugly compared to competitors regardless of respective reliability rankings. And yes, the Malibu has been on the road long enough to know if it's a dud or not. The Epsilon platform has been in service for 9 model years now and its most recent driveline has been in service for 6 years.
The reason that i specifically cited the Malibu is because its corporate "twin", the Saturn Aura, has been pretty much panned since day one. It's the same basic vehicle.
What quality turnaround? I think we're putting the cart before the horse making a statement like that. I've been a GM loyalist, and my experience has been that initial quality has always been at least decent. But, let's see some long-term quality before we shower Wagoner with accolades. The critically acclaimed Malibu hasn't been on the road long enough to truly declare it a quality breakthrough from GM.
You obviously havent been around GM in awhile. Im not a GM fan by any means, but they do offer many impressive rides as of late. Sure they still kick out some crap, but what car company doesnt??? Regarding Wagoner, he did wonders for GM, he really did. I worked for GM for 3 years, got lots of seat time with just about every model you can think of (during the late 90s, early 2000s). I still have a friend who works for GM (going on 13 years now) and have gotten rides in many new models. Im impressed. Very impressed, actually. Everything from a Denali to a G6, I gotta say Im impressed, and GM rarely impresses me. Everyone heaped praise on Carlos Ghosn and what he did for Nissan, why cant people give Rick Wagoner some praise?
And if you want long-term reliability results, did you forget about the 3800 or 350? The 3800 has been rated as one of the 10 best engines ever, and the 350 was tearing down dragstrips making 800+ hp while the Japanese were stuffing lawnmower engines in Civics and calling them "cars".
The reason that i specifically cited the Malibu is because its corporate "twin", the Saturn Aura, has been pretty much panned since day one. It's the same basic vehicle.
I can't reconcile "pretty much panned since day one" with the fact that in 2007 the Aura was not only voted North American Car of the Year by automotive journalists, but it also won Motor Trend's Car of the Year award.
I did a browse of the major car mags and none of them were particularly scathing; in fact most were favorable:
Car and Driver comparison test: 2007 Saturn Aura XE Comparison Tests - Car and Driver . . . here they're more critical of the Aura and even contradict some of their prior assessments, such as saying the interior is cheap in this review while they hardily approved of it in their initial review. It should be noted that the Aura and Malibu have different interiors, beats me which one is "better." In any case, it still beat out the Camry in this review.
The general gist I get from these articles is that the Aura isn't at Honda/Toyota levels yet but it's the closest GM has been to that level of quality in a long time. What I don't get from them is "generally panned from day one."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
