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Take the fit and finish of my MKIV over your Honda any day of the week.
Now I know you're smarter than that. I've owned NSXes, '00 and '03, and the fit and finish has been nothing short of excellent, this is well known among the exotic car community. A Supra is just not on the same level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by texdav
Well its not just people but the actaul reviews and owner experience. Sounds like a failing big htree envy p[roblem to me really. N wander american car and the people who make them are bankrupt and on governamnt welfarte now.
"governamnt welfarte"? I don't like the smell of that. Please tell me that you weren't sober when you wrote the above comment.
Now I know you're smarter than that. I've owned NSXes, '00 and '03, and the fit and finish has been nothing short of excellent, this is well known among the exotic car community. A Supra is just not on the same level.
Please don't try and pass off a Honda as an exotic.
Please don't try and pass off a Honda as an exotic.
I hope you're joking bud Not to burst your bubble, but if you don't consider the NSX an exotic than you are in the minority of car enthusiasts. With its extremely low production numbers (<500/yr) and better performance than it's Ferrari competitor upon it's 1990 release, it definitely meets the qualifications.
Would you say that the "Ford GT" is not an exotic because it's a Ford? Is the Murcielago not an exotic because it's parent company is Audi?
Supercar? No, not by today's standards. But exotic? Yes. The only Japanese exotic and best looking Japanese car ever. I'm not trying to say the Supra isn't a great car, it's just not in the same league in terms of exclusivity. The Nissan GT-R is the opposite, It's a supercar but not an exotic. The performance is astounding, but it's production numbers are way too high, and it does not help that it's butt-ugly.
The Nissan GT-R is the opposite, It's a supercar but not an exotic. The performance is astounding, but it's production numbers are way too high, and it does not help that it's butt-ugly.
That and it comes only with that damned "flappy-paddle" transmission.
The more I think about exotics, I think I would *prefer* the NSX to most of the similar offerings from Italy.
The NSX is like a (probably Japanese) supermodel that has a job of her own, can cook, is not hysterical, can drive a stickshift, and owns less than 100 pairs of shoes...and some guys won't buy "supermodel" without the drama...
exactly. In fact I have had many throttle cables stick in cars I have owned in the 32 years of driving. Never had a drive by wire system stick and I have owned 4 cars now with a drive by wire throttle. Its hogwash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinsteinsGhost
There will have to be two failures at the same time for limp mode to not engage. And if that were to happen, flip over the transmission to neutral, and engage brakes. This can (and has) happened with or without ETC/Drive By Wire.
What car was this person driving?
Mechanical cable can also get stuck. As for electronic controls, they already work for virtually every safety aspect of your car (if it has all that). DBW will eventually replace all separate pieces and integrate them into one system. Currently, ABS, Traction control/Stability systems are already (mostly) integrated.
Toyota's runaway-car worries may not stop at floor mats
By Ralph Vartabedian and Ken Bensinger
The 2009 Lexus ES 350 shot through suburban San Diego like a runaway missile, weaving at 120 miles an hour through rush hour freeway traffic as flames flashed from under the car.
At the wheel, veteran California Highway Patrol Officer Mark Saylor desperately tried to control the 272-horsepower engine that was roaring at full throttle as his wife, teenage daughter and brother-in-law were gripped by fear.
"We’re in trouble. . . . There’s no brakes," Saylor's brother-in-law Chris Lastrella told a police dispatcher over a cellphone. Moments later, frantic shrieks filled the car as it slammed into another vehicle and then careened into a dirt embankment, killing all four aboard.
The tragedy Aug. 28 was at least the fifth fatal crash in the U.S. over the last two years involving runaway Toyota and Lexus vehicles made by Toyota Motor Corp. It is also among hundreds of incidents of sudden acceleration involving the company's vehicles that have been reported to Toyota or the federal government, according to an examination of public records by The Times.
Toyota has blamed the incidents -- apart from those caused by driver error -- on its floor mats, asserting that if they are improperly installed they can jam open the accelerator pedal. A month after the Saylor crash, Toyota issued its biggest recall in company history, affecting 3.8 million vehicles in model years as far back as 2004. But auto safety experts believe there may be a bigger problem with Toyota vehicles than simply the floor mats.
The Saylor crash and others like it across the country, they say, point to a troubling possibility: that Toyota's ignition, transmission and braking systems may make it difficult for drivers to combat sudden or unintended accelerations and safely recover, regardless of their cause.
Toyota is not the only car company to be hit with reports of sudden acceleration, but the San Diego fatality, the massive recall that came in its wake and Toyota's position as the world's largest automaker have focused intense scrutiny on the company by federal safety regulators and others.
"This is Toyota's Firestone," said Sean Kane, president of Safety Research & Strategies, a Rehoboth, Mass., auto safety consulting firm. He was referring to the public relations disaster that hit Bridgestone/Firestone almost 10 years ago over defective tires that caused a series of fatal accidents.
"Right now," Kane said, "when you say sudden acceleration, Toyota is it."
In addition to Saylor and Lastrella, the San Diego crash killed Saylor's wife, Cleofe Lastrella, and their only child, 13-year-old daughter Mahala.
Signaling how seriously the company takes the incident, Toyota President Akio Toyoda made an apology this month while meeting with the Japanese news media.
"Customers bought our cars because they thought they were the safest," he said. "But now we have given them cause for grave concern. I can't begin to express my remorse."
One remedy being considered by Toyota implicitly acknowledges what critics have been saying for almost 10 years: that the company's highly computerized engine control system lacks a fail-safe mechanism that can quickly extinguish sudden acceleration events, whether they are caused by floor mats, driver errors or even unknown defects in the electronic control system, as alleged in some lawsuits.
Reports of sudden acceleration in Toyota vehicles has resulted in nine federal inquiries and investigations since 2000, two of which determined that there were improperly positioned floor mats. Another found a loose part in Sienna minivans, and yet another probe remains open. The rest were dismissed with no findings of equipment problems.
In most Toyota vehicles, the floor mats are held in place by two clips, which can come loose. Toyota offers a standard carpeted floor mat and an optional rubber version. Both mats have a cutout around the accelerator pedal. The vehicle driven by Saylor had a rubber floor mat, but Toyota said it was for a different model of Lexus.
Since the San Diego crash, Toyota has urged all its customers to remove their floor mats as an interim fix. But longer term, Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said, the company is examining significant design changes.
One possible remedy is to redesign the accelerator pedal to make it harder to get caught by a floor mat, he said. Another potential fix, he said, involves reprogramming the engine's computer to automatically cut power when a driver brakes while the gas pedal is depressed.
Such fail-safes are needed, auto experts say, because sudden acceleration can cause drivers to panic, diminishing their ability to take swift action -- such as shutting off the engine or shifting into neutral.
exactly. In fact I have had many throttle cables stick in cars I have owned in the 32 years of driving. Never had a drive by wire system stick and I have owned 4 cars now with a drive by wire throttle. Its hogwash.
You are assuming the system cannot fail. Personally I'd rather my gas pedal actually be attached to something mechanical vs an electronic system which was built in a world where many electronic systems have failed resulting in catastrophe.
You say you have never had a drive by wire system fail in the last 4 cars you personally have owned. That's a pretty small sampling of the whole wouldn't you say?
But let's talk about mechanical throttle cables. I personally was in an accident where a friend of mine was driving and the throttle stuck on the floor. That's my data point. I should also say that the engine had just been rebuilt....It's probably fair to say that something wasn't installed properly. So this was likely human error on the part of the mechanic....the 'creator' (looking back this makes the most sense to me but at the time we assumed that it was just a freak occurance).
The 'creator' in the case of a drive by wire system is the programmer who assembles the logic behind the throttle control. You hope that he actually has a team of programmers under him responsible for the code that actually makes it onboard the cars....and that they actually do sufficient testing to make sure said code is sound enough and will not fail. You also hope that said system has a fail safe and is resistant to outside influences.
I hope you're joking bud Not to burst your bubble, but if you don't consider the NSX an exotic than you are in the minority of car enthusiasts. With its extremely low production numbers (<500/yr) and better performance than it's Ferrari competitor upon it's 1990 release, it definitely meets the qualifications.
Would you say that the "Ford GT" is not an exotic because it's a Ford? Is the Murcielago not an exotic because it's parent company is Audi?
Supercar? No, not by today's standards. But exotic? Yes. The only Japanese exotic and best looking Japanese car ever. I'm not trying to say the Supra isn't a great car, it's just not in the same league in terms of exclusivity. The Nissan GT-R is the opposite, It's a supercar but not an exotic. The performance is astounding, but it's production numbers are way too high, and it does not help that it's butt-ugly.
I agree that the NSX is exotic, I absolutely love them. But overall production numbers and performance dont mean much in terms of being exotic. They sure help, but exotic is more along the lines of materials used, etc. The NSX came with titanium engine components, aluminum frame and body, etc, which is definitely exotic as is the fact that a lot of the car was handbuilt. Anyways,
The 'creator' in the case of a drive by wire system is the programmer who assembles the logic behind the throttle control. You hope that he actually has a team of programmers under him responsible for the code that actually makes it onboard the cars....and that they actually do sufficient testing to make sure said code is sound enough and will not fail. You also hope that said system has a fail safe and is resistant to outside influences.
...but what if it wasn't?
Dont forget the electrical engineers who designed the circuitry and the mechanical engineers who put it all together. Could very well be a circuit issue. Regardless, the whole system is far more complex than it needs to be. EFI to carburation is NOT like electronic throttle to manual throttle... the comfort and precision gains over a manual throttle are negligible.
Dont forget the electrical engineers who designed the circuitry and the mechanical engineers who put it all together. Could very well be a circuit issue. Regardless, the whole system is far more complex than it needs to be. EFI to carburation is NOT like electronic throttle to manual throttle... the comfort and precision gains over a manual throttle are negligible.
What gains ? More like lost cause! drive by wire is used to better control computer functions which manual input from the right foot couldn't do as quick.
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Please tell me that you weren't sober when you wrote the above comment.
Not to burst your bubble, but if you don't consider the NSX an exotic than you are in the minority of car enthusiasts. With its extremely low production numbers (<500/yr) and better performance than it's Ferrari competitor upon it's 1990 release, it definitely meets the qualifications.
