myth vs. reality (muscle car, coupe, fuel, brakes)

[Linson]

flipping through channels, i started watching the Barrett-Jackson Auctions this evening.

• seems like prices have really snapped back to reality. cars that would have gotten 80 to 100+ thousand a couple years ago are being sold for what they're worth: 25-50 thousand.

so just as the announcers are commenting on how an all original car is worth more than a modified car, two all original Mopars ( a 70-ish GTX and a 72 Cuda 340 ) sell for around 25K followed by a 69 Camaro with an LS1 and 4L60E overdrive automatic transmission. it had big shiney wheels, but the suspension and drive train did not appear to be heavily upgraded (it had a 10-bolt rear end and rear drum brakes. and it didnt appear to be lowered. it sold for $46,000. now, why did this modified car sell for nearly twice the amount of two all original cars?

• it seems like the growing trend is in favor of cars that are built to be driven, rather than be trailered and have wine sipped over them.

so i present this question: if you could have, as a free gift, one super street machine, would you take an all original muscle car straight out of a time machine - or an old muscle car heavily modded with modern equipment like fuel injection, big slotted, cross drilled brakes, and performance suspension?

me - i would go with the old muscle car loaded with modern performance.

and - if you would choose the car with all original equipment - which would you rather drive?

http://www.motoringtampabay.com/1969Camaro.jpg (broken link) http://classiccollectibleautos.com/Car%20Detail%20Folder/68%20Mustang%20Coupe/Large%20Photos/IMG_6185.jpg (broken link)

[Drover]

I'd prefer the original drivetrain, but the drums would get swapped for discs in a hurry. A decent set of contemporary wheels would probably follow.

[ranger17]

while i think it was much easier to work on the small blocks of yesteryear; to have a classic Camaro body with a modern drivetrain and suspension-- I'd be one happy man

[sean sean sean sean]

Originally Posted by Linson

me - i would go with the old muscle car loaded with modern performance.

Same here, unless it was something super rare and I'd be destroying a piece of history by swapping the original drivetrain/suspension/etc. out.

[JBMallory]

i would prefer a 67 camaro shell.. build the rest, ls7, 6spd manual, coilover independent suspension

uncle just bought a 69 camaro
original everything, 307 vinyl top car, 32k miles for 19,900

[JTraik]

Ill take a time machine car and do modifications myself as I feel they are needed.

[drjones96]

Originally Posted by Linson

flipping through channels, i started watching the Barrett-Jackson Auctions this evening.

• seems like prices have really snapped back to reality. cars that would have gotten 80 to 100+ thousand a couple years ago are being sold for what they're worth: 25-50 thousand.

so just as the announcers are commenting on how an all original car is worth more than a modified car, two all original Mopars ( a 70-ish GTX and a 72 Cuda 340 ) sell for around 25K followed by a 69 Camaro with an LS1 and 4L60E overdrive automatic transmission. it had big shiney wheels, but the suspension and drive train did not appear to be heavily upgraded (it had a 10-bolt rear end and rear drum brakes. and it didnt appear to be lowered. it sold for $46,000. now, why did this modified car sell for nearly twice the amount of two all original cars?

• it seems like the growing trend is in favor of cars that are built to be driven, rather than be trailered and have wine sipped over them.

so i present this question: if you could have, as a free gift, one super street machine, would you take an all original muscle car straight out of a time machine - or an old muscle car heavily modded with modern equipment like fuel injection, big slotted, cross drilled brakes, and performance suspension?

me - i would go with the old muscle car loaded with modern performance.

and - if you would choose the car with all original equipment - which would you rather drive?

I think the answer as to why cars are selling lower than previously is complicated. I watch B-J for grins sometimes when I am bored (which makes me depressed because I'll likely never own some of those cars...but anywho).

The economy taking the hit that it has obviously played a part this year. I just didn't see the money being thrown around like it has been in years past. Like you said....cars that would have sold for $100k were selling for half that or less in some cases. I'd have to question the sanity of someone bringing a high end car to auction this past year. They had to know that it wasn't going to bring as much money this year as it could next year or the year after. (unless they were broke and needed the money )

As for why the original/restored original cars weren't bringing the dough like before I think it has to do with trends and supply & demand. Back in the 80's when I used to go to the drag strips I used to see tons and tons and tons of these Camaro's and other muscle cars being gutted and used for drag racing. (I know three guys personally that still race 1st gen Camaro's every weekend.) And nobody really thought much about it because they made great drag cars....and they were plentiful....so who really cares? Flash forward about 20 years and all of a sudden Camaro's are in crazy high demand and selling for crazy money. WTF happened? So then people start hauling all these Camaro's out of the woodwork and restoring them because they are selling high. Well as supply increases...demand decreases. And therefore the prices start to come down. (part of this is my own speculation but my best guess) So it's just reality hitting the classic car market like you said. Prices for these cars just can't continue to go through the roof if the supply keeps growing.

As for why some customs sell high and some don't: That black Camaro you posted is B-A-D. It's probably had every peice on it customized and/or improved. It's a special car. It's going to sell high. But if a guy just took a daily driver quality Camaro, threw on some new wheels, put a slightly better small block in it, and changed a few other knick knacks on it it's not going to sell so high. Why? Because it's not really a numbers matching original/restored original car...it's not rare or special.....and it doesn't really qualify as a full blown customized car.....so....it's just a mut.

Personally I'd rather have a customized Camaro like that than one that is bone stock original. Others may feel the same way. But the way those cars were back then...i think some people look at them through rose colored glasses. Drum brakes....suspect handling....carburated engines. Say you want a time capsule? Fine. But I'd rather take a car from the past and improve it.

BTW: My pops just aquired a '66 Mustang Coupe to fix up. It was an original 6cyl car but he's going to probably swap it for a 289. (a 6 cyl car wouldn't be worth much anyway so why keep it original)

[texdav]

When people are flush they buy toys and when they aren't they sell those toys.

[Deez Nuttz]

Originally Posted by Linson

• seems like prices have really snapped back to reality. cars that would have gotten 80 to 100+ thousand a couple years ago are being sold for what they're worth: 25-50 thousand.

Good, let's hope so. It's about time those old cars start to become more affordable.

Originally Posted by Linson

so i present this question: if you could have, as a free gift, one super street machine, would you take an all original muscle car straight out of a time machine - or an old muscle car heavily modded with modern equipment like fuel injection, big slotted, cross drilled brakes, and performance suspension?

I would take either or....but if modified it would have to be done "tastefully" by my standards....which means the body and interior look stock....but the car is outfitted with a moden transmission that didn't include hacking the trans tunnel...the suspension could be 4 wheel disc brakes and larger rims, maybe even an aftermarket front sub frame with rack and pinion steering...or better yet if someone made a full frame with all of these additives that would allow a Camaro or Mustang body to sit down onto.

I do like stock too because I also feel it's important to remember "what was". Even if it meant drum brakes and carburetors...there are those that prefer to keep these cars as original as they can. Nothing wrong with that, but they say "value is in the eye of the buyer"....I've heard of some that would pay top dollar for an "original as possible" car over one that's been retrofitted all over.

As for which one I'd take....again either or. I like both the 60's Camaros and the 60's Mustang equally. They're both a nice well thought out design...back when automakers actually designed nice cars instead of the fugly ones they do now. Although I'm sort of partial to the 69 Mustang fast back over all other Mustangs. But that 67 fastback you have pictured would be my second choice.

[caution]

old muscle for the shell and all modern parts -- no way I'd have the time for an original