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Old 11-07-2009, 12:03 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,294 posts, read 13,330,463 times
Reputation: 3643
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedNC View Post
I'm basing it on the website you provided, O'deluded one.

Never said it is a, "cash in the pocket", it is a fed tax credit, just as I said, O'deluded one.

VW determines the prices not me, O'deluded one.

As for your calculation and fuel prices. Where I live the differences are anywhere from $.10 less for diesel to $.18 more than regular. Right now it's $.10 more.
At the current prices it would take @ 38759 miles to break even, not 100000 miles. O'deluded one.

I never said TDI's were cash cows, they just aren't $5000 more than a gas equivalent. You seem bound and determined to prove yourself right even if you have to fudge the truth to do it.
From this post we can ascertain two things.

1. You're a teenager.
2. You've never owned, driven and maintained a diesel.

I've owned and driven 8 of them - and that's not counting all the diesl trucks, tractors and combines on the farm.


Now... How 'bout you run along and play with your toys. The big people are trying to have a conversation.

 
Old 11-07-2009, 12:24 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,294 posts, read 13,330,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPBsr View Post
How about I bought a lower priced TDI. Paid $21,009 plus tax. IPOD was standard, 16"rims are perfect and I only buy manual trannys and don't need the sunroof (have a mustang vert for that). The $1300 tax credit is cash in your pocket. The same that my son bought a Civic Hybrid 2 years ago and received $2500 tax credit.

The price of gas down here now is only .10 dif between reg and diesel.

Comparing apples to apples, on carsdirect the diff between a gasser and TDI are $2628, minus the $1300 tax credit on the TDI = $1328 diff. Plus the TDI is a 6 speed compared to the 5 for the gasser and the TDI has something that the gasser doesnt. Electric heaters in the vents. Pretty much instant heat when starting the car.

CarsDirect.com -- America's #1 way to buy cars online!

There are also a number of TDI owners getting 50mpg+ on the TDI site.

Well worth the small additional upfront expense knowing I'm getting 40+mpg and part of a special group of people.

First of all, the $1300 non-refundable tax credit is NOT "money in the pocket." It lowers your tax liability by $1,300 after you file it with your annual taxes. For some people, it has no effect on their taxes whatever.

That said, the fact is that within the last 18 months, diesel fuel was well over $1 per gallon more than regular gas. Sometimes diesel is cheaper than gas, but hasn't been for the past 2+ years. Right now, in Omaha, #2 diesel fuel is .30 per gallon more than regular gas. In addition, anybody in the northern half of the United States needs to run blended fuel during the winter - this costing anywhere from .10 to .25 more per gallon than #2 diesel. Also, it lowers your fuel economy.

Also, anybody who has driven diesels knows that the maintenance and - when necessary - repairs on diesels are far more expensive than on gas models.


So... Even if (and that's a BIG "if") you save $200 per 10,000 miles driving a TDI, you have to drive a minimum of 75,000 miles just to break even with a gasser - and that's at current prices of both the cars and the fuel.


The bottom line is that people should drive TDIs because they WANT to. Spare all the bragging about all these thousands of dollars saved due to increased fuel economy. That's like me bragging about all the money I'm saving because my motorcycle gets 50 mpg.
 
Old 11-07-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
7,394 posts, read 13,018,226 times
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[quote=Omaha Rocks;11507398]As I see it, there are two main problems with the TDIs.

First of all, they cost too much more than the gassers. I bought my wife a 2001 New Beetle for our 20th Anniversary. I really wanted to get a TDI, but when doing the math, I figured that we would have had to drive it over 65,000 miles before the fuel savings paid for the extra cost of the vehicle. And that was back when diesel was 50-75 cents per gallon cheaper than gas.

Second, most people have no idea how to drive a diesel - especially in cold climates. I lived in Minnesota for nearly 20 years, and have no idea how many times I ran across people who hated their diesels. But they were the problem. They were running heavy oil and/or #2 fuel and/or did not have their glow plugs or batteries up to snuff.

I drove mine in MN for years. I only gelled my fuel once. We were having a great fall and they hadn't switched over to arctic diesel yet. An extreme cold front came through and got me. I was 3/4 of the way home and the car lost all power and there was a lot of white smoke. The only thing that surprised me was that it was in the middle of my drive. I always expected to gel on startup, not mid trip!

I've always thought the cost savings on these cars was related to the fact that they last twice as long as a gasser. You probably wouldn't have much savings if you planned on trading in the car every few years.
 
Old 11-07-2009, 01:21 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 2,277,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
I've always thought the cost savings on these cars was related to the fact that they last twice as long as a gasser. You probably wouldn't have much savings if you planned on trading in the car every few years.
The longevity of the diesels is the key to their cost savings. Some of the diesel pickups go a million plus miles on the original engine compared to a typical gas engine that might last for 250K.

If you only count the fuel costs, diesels may only be a break even proposition for the first few years, but once you factor in their additional resale value it's easy to see that they're cheaper to drive than gasoline powered cars.
 
Old 11-07-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,294 posts, read 13,330,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowsnow View Post
I've always thought the cost savings on these cars was related to the fact that they last twice as long as a gasser. You probably wouldn't have much savings if you planned on trading in the car every few years.
Right.

Most of the people I know, who have owned VW Diesels over the years, have been kind of old fanatical hippies - and I mean that in a good way.

Lots of them do the Waste Vegetable Oil Conversion. And most of these folks have about 8 carcasses sitting out back. They love them.


But you're right. Trading off any car every few years - especially a TDI - is financially foolish. If you want to, and can afford to, that's fine. But it's not done for the sake of saving money.
 
Old 11-07-2009, 02:17 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,294 posts, read 13,330,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
The longevity of the diesels is the key to their cost savings. Some of the diesel pickups go a million plus miles on the original engine compared to a typical gas engine that might last for 250K.

If you only count the fuel costs, diesels may only be a break even proposition for the first few years, but once you factor in their additional resale value it's easy to see that they're cheaper to drive than gasoline powered cars.
I've never heard of them lasting that long. Half-million, maybe.

Do you know of people whose diesels have lasted that long?
 
Old 11-07-2009, 02:28 PM
 
3,460 posts, read 2,277,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
I've never heard of them lasting that long. Half-million, maybe.

Do you know of people whose diesels have lasted that long?
A million miles isn't as uncommon as you'd think. This truck was still going at 1.4 million:
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 - Cummins Diesel Engine - Diesel Power Magazine
 
Old 11-07-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: The Great State of Texas, Finally!
5,223 posts, read 7,316,665 times
Reputation: 2189
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
You are unique. It is unfortunately true that very few women can drive a stick shift, let alone work on a car. I think it is awesome that you can do that.
Another manly, girl here, with a stick shift car. I laughed outloud when one poster said a manual car was less likely to get stolen b/c so few people know how to drive them anymore. Probably true! WHy doesn't VW make a diesel, pick up truck, just regular size, stick shift. I'd totally buy that.
 
Old 11-07-2009, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas
7,394 posts, read 13,018,226 times
Reputation: 8362
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobolt View Post
Another manly, girl here, with a stick shift car. I laughed outloud when one poster said a manual car was less likely to get stolen b/c so few people know how to drive them anymore. Probably true! WHy doesn't VW make a diesel, pick up truck, just regular size, stick shift. I'd totally buy that.
Glad to hear there's more than one of us!!!!!

That was me talking about the stolen car. There was a great story a couple years ago about a teen trying to steal a Viper in a mall parking lot. He was arrested because he couldn't get the car to GO!!!!!

He had no problem starting it. Just couldn't drive stick.
 
Old 11-07-2009, 02:38 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,294 posts, read 13,330,463 times
Reputation: 3643
Quote:
Originally Posted by sterlinggirl View Post
A million miles isn't as uncommon as you'd think. This truck was still going at 1.4 million:
2001 Dodge Ram 3500 - Cummins Diesel Engine - Diesel Power Magazine
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